How do you explain it to your spouse?

by buffy 19 Replies latest jw friends

  • SEAKEN2001
    SEAKEN2001

    Good comment Introspection.

    Why do some say you don't understand? I was raised a dub but I still have a hard time grasping the concept that a dub can be active yet not be thoroughly indoctrinated. Apparently this is my wifes view. She clearly does not take the WT threats seriously and claims that no one knows who will survive Armageddon, etc. Yet she believes the dubs have the "truth" and that to leave them puts me in a poor situation. To me, as a life long dub, it is either you're in or you're out. It's very difficult to understand dubs who just make up their own ideas about what the WT teaches and treat it as their "religion" rather than their "life".

    Why did you get baptized? Did you believe you knew the "truth"? Were you confident that the WT represented God? Did you defend them at all costs? If so, than I think you can understand the difficulties faced by those who have left those beliefs behind and are trying to recover from the mind control.

    I agree that those never associated with dubs will probably never fully understand what we are going through. Hopefully, our loved ones will not let that prevent them from putting up with our weird obsessions.

    Sean

  • Introspection
    Introspection

    Hi Sean,

    I haven't actually had someone say that to me explicitly, but because I have dropped the whole thing completely it may be interpreted as never having really believed it. However, I was a sincere witness. To give you some idea, I only listened to Kingdom Melodies for a while, even the elder who studied with me thought that was extreme! When I watched Dateline and heard the KM's playing in the background it brought back memory of my mind state back then, all I can say is it's very much a difference of night and day.

  • SEAKEN2001
    SEAKEN2001

    Oh, I think I see. Maybe some who still believe give you the impression that they think your were never a true believer. I think most of us who have completely walked away, like yourself, understand that that is just a self-serving response from individuals who are still trying to hold on.

    It has been irritating me that my wife will not allow herself to entertain the thought that I was indeed a true and honest believer and that it was extremely difficult to change my mind. I just can't understand why she is willing to think that I am somehow now allied with Satan's world. I really haven't changed very much. It disturbs me that she thinks I am sick even thought she claims that she does not. By her refusal to address my questions, and my outright acusations against the Society she follows, she is telling me otherwise. It is very hard for me to set aside all this crap and just conscentrate on loving her. I try very hard every day. Some days are good. Some days are bad. I am still programmed to want to have my wife in agreement with me and share my ideas on spirituality. I am hoping that some day I can get that program out of my mind. It is the only thing left from my dub life that has a hold on me.

    Take care,
    Sean

  • BeautifulGarbage
    BeautifulGarbage

    Hi Buffy,

    I have been married to a "worldly" man for 15 years. Now, my own personal experiences being a JW are from childhood. I was not a JW in my adult years. Yet, the indelible mark on my life is there.

    My spouse will never completely understand, though he is very compassionate and does his best to try. He also doesn't understand WHY I keep coming to this board. Why it is comforting to me. And there are times he resents it and the attention it receives from me.

    Putting the JWism aside, he and I had very different upbringings anyway. My home as a child could be violent, cruel, and completely insane at times. My spouse had the more conventional upper-middle class upbringing. The Mom, Dad, and apple pie thingy. So, we are also very different that way.

    I don't know if there is an usual experience your spouse might have had that you could use in place of the JW thing to help him understand. My spouse and I nearly lost our daughter to cancer. It was an uniquely frightening experience that is not easily understood by those that have not gone through it themselves. So, I have used that example with him to help explain my need to come to this place.It has helped him understand me a little bit better.

    You might want to print out this thread and let him read it.

    Andee

  • Jewel
    Jewel

    I've been thinking about this and agree with what everybody has said. His caring is more important than his being able to understand completely.

    He doesn't need to be able to understand. No human can completely share the experiences of another. Even though my sister and I grew up together, we often had very different reactions to the same events. It's fascinating to hear another account of something and realize how differently she saw it.

    My husband also can't really understand what it is like to be a woman, or to carry a baby or labor for that matter (heck, he often complains about how TIRED he got--pfft!) I will never really know how it feels to be a man. That doesn't mean we can't love each other and experience the "other side" vicariously.

    On a lighter note, even the language is different. If I say "district assembly" to you, you get a complete picture-sights, smells, emotions, etc. A never-been-a-Witness would get a blank...

    "See, a bunch of congregations make a circuit. A bunch of circuits make a district. A district assembly is when all these congregations get together and listen to guys talk about God for five days. There's a morning session and then a break and an afternoon session and then a break and then an evening session (yeah, I know they're only a couple of days now and no evening session-you young wimps <G>)...

    Even with that he just can't get a picture of what it's REALLY like.

  • LittleToe
    LittleToe

    Since I DA'ed in January the local congregations have had a number of items on apostacy and making the "troof" your own.

    My wife asked me if I had ever fully believed.
    I just stared at her, incredulous at the ignorance.
    I had been a "true believer", an elder, zealot, reaching out for Circuit work, etc., and she asks me if I ever made it my own!!!

    That's the salve to the JW conscience - those who leave can't have ever been fully convinced, otherwise how could they leave the "spiritual paradise"?

    As with other comments, I would add my agreement that if they haven't been there they will never fully comprehend.

  • Francois
    Francois

    He can't understand where you're comin' from 'cause he's never been where you been, you see where I'm at?

    Francois

  • Trotafox
    Trotafox
    That's the salve to the JW conscience - those who leave can't have ever been fully convinced, otherwise how could they leave the "spiritual paradise"?

    Yep, the last phone conversation I had with my best friend before I DA'd, she said: "Well, you just didn't have the time to study like I did." (Parroted right out of the latest Awake magazine or WT...I forget..on "having doubts").

    Unbelievable!

    Trot

  • detective
    detective

    Well, as one who will never truly understand I have to step up for others who have been absolutely baffled by the experience of having a loved one "in". As much as I know that I can never fully grasp the situation as I haven't been in those shoes, I also know that it was my need for understanding that brought me to sites like this a long time ago.

    Just as I will never know the sights or smells, the feelings and the loss, my friend will never know what it was like to stand on the brink of something so odd and be left dangling, wondering what the heck any of it means. My friend will probably never know how I felt when I first read those derisive remarks about people like me- worldly types! (You mean, when they were acting all nice to me- at the very same time they were allowing people to say such horrible things about me??) But it isn't just up to me to understand his experiences. He's got to try to understand mine as well. Not just the ones I had in dealing with his religion. But the the experiences I've had completely independent of him or his religion.
    Goodness knows- there are lots of people on this board who took completely different things away from their experience. In reality, they won't fully understand you either. Nobody really does. So, you look for people you can relate to and hope shared experiences might help you heal.
    I'll never really understand anymore than my friend will understand what it was like in my shoes. Nor will he ever understand many of my life-shaping experiences. Then what? We stand at an impass because we'll never really "get it" from each others perspectives?

    I would NEVER belittle what a tremendous life-altering experience this has been for anyone here. The best I can do is try to get as best an understanding as I can. At the same time, I would hope that my jw friend would realize that he has never been where I stand either. That isn't the point though, is it? The point is trying to bridge the gap, not widen it by using the "you'll never understand" sentiment as a barrier.
    You'll never understand. Explain it to me. You'll never understand. Enlighten me. You'll never understand. You don't understand me either. You'll never understand. Nor will you. You'll never understand. Why bother? You'll never understand. I give up.

    At what point do you let yourself and others off the hook? When do you start to accept the fact that true understanding of every thought, experience and action between people is something of myth. Realistically, there will always be differences. It's what you do to find common ground that matters in the end.

    p.s. Little Toe, I think you seem like a nice guy but that "ignorance" comment was really unnecessary. Perhaps you didn't really understand her question, or did that thought not cross your mind? Before you call her ignorant, you might want to be sure you understood where she was coming from when she asked you that.

  • LittleToe
    LittleToe

    Detective:
    First off I want to say that my heart goes out to anyone who is daft enough to get involved with a JW or ex-JW - you must have gone through hell!
    All credit to you for sticking through it.
    That level of perseverance never ceases to evoke my admiration.
    I believe that many of us may have difficulty comprehending your perspective.

    As for the "ignorance" comment, maybe that's the wrong word, but it best sums up how I felt at the time (which is what I was trying to express).
    Here is a woman who has been my most intimate companion for over a decade, through good times and bad, sharing experiences and goal.
    Now she questions my previous conviction, on the basis of a magazine article - wiping out all previous experience.

    I didn't call her "ignorant" to her face (I wouldn't be so inconsiderate), and I did then ask her to qualify her statement.
    I'm not going to gloss over that fact that it touched a raw nerve, though.

    Ok... after a few moments of wallowing in self pity... where do you want to start in the psychological disection of a former cult member/ current cult-exitee?

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit