Dateline discussed openly in our congregation

by TheMatrix 99 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  SixofNine

  My first thought is: I tend not to believe you. He gave you his manuscrpt?

  I think this is your fantasy of yourself as an elder. And if so, you'd be a pretty good one, save for the crappy position all elders occupy in life. Notice how even this "good" elder couldn't help but be an overbearing asshole:

  So if an elder were to approach you and warn you in private to keep your children away from Brother X, then will you question the elder as to why? Of course not, if the elder is giving you this warning then it must be for a good reason, follow his counsel and protect your children.

  So remember, don't question my ultimate god given authority, you unnappointed peons.

  I also echo the other comments regarding your characterization of "openness". Buy a clue. Openness would be a group sitting around after the bookstudy, with a few who know of cases handled badly, openly critizing the spirit of the organisation that led to their being handled badly. All the while, those who had no such knowledge of this particular imperfection of the org, sat back, took it all in, and hatched no plans to spiritually murder their dissenting brother.

  That, my clueless friend, would be open-ness. Kinda like what you have here.
• 

  crawdad2

  hi matrix...... you sound like a jw bs artist...... are you a gov body member?.... you have nothing in writing?????

  i hope elders do ivite everyone to discuss grievances on this issue with them in private........ LETS GET THE BALL ROLLING, AND GET THE HUSH HUSH GOING, AND THE DISFELLOWSHIPPING FOR APOSTACY GOING.

  the longer you wait before you disfellowship those questioning the gov body, the more members you are going to loose.

  i can't wait to see how many get disfellowshipped for coming forward with questions....
• 

  L_A_Big_Dawg

  Matrix,

  While I am new here, I am very familiar with the JW tendancy to "strecth the truth" (no pun intended). Many a time, in my association with the JWs (son of a PO, City Overseer, and sub-CO), I have heard something that was said at a Hall, and repeated "verbatim." When the matter was researched and verified, it appeared that the message was blown out in the JW "grapevne."

  While I do not doubt the sincerity of Elder H (there are good men in the elder bodies of many Congs.). I, however, seriously doubt your ability to remember said monologe from the platform. By the way, I am trained in memory techniques, and even I would have a hard time remembering verbatim a monologue of such length without some assistance from a tape recorder.

  However, this reasoned and compassionate response in your particular Congregation, is not what I have found in my dealings with JWs. Most of the JWs tend to attack the person leveling the charges as "apostates." They refuse to even consider the fact that these persons are not "out to get" the Org. but rather are in this for some financial gain, or worse some attempt to gain fame.

  It is my sincere prayer, that many JWs will "Awake" from their Org. imposed mental complacency and relize that salvation is not in an Org. but in the person and work of a man from Nazareth over 2,000 years ago.

  "That's me in the corner. That's me in the spotlight, losing my religion." REM

  And thank God I lost my religion.

  The Big Dawg
• 

  hawkaw

  First off OUTLAW is absolutely correct and there needs to be a big time apology from the GB on this one.

  Second - people must be told the law states that parents must report abuse to the proper authorities big time no matter what - none of this conscience crap.

  The elders must not interfere in any investiagtion whatsoever.

  The sickso must not be allowed to go door to door.

  For justification purposes it is important that you please state the congregation name and location.

  hawk
• 

  bonovox

  Good for you Matrix. I for one have no problem believing that you remembered it long enough till you got home to write it all down. Maybe you even took notes when you realized the topic was being discussed? Hell, I can remember certain talks from 15 years ago like it was yesterday, especially one of the ones given after I was reproved. Not inconceivable at all.

  All you ex-s, of which I am also one, one thing I don't get is, just what exactly do you want? The whole Society to just implode and disband completely? Don't you think that's kinda unrealistic? Have you ever considered that maybe the change is gonna have to come from within, and that even that change will take time? SOunds to me like at least these elders have come further than the RCC will ever come. Theyre still denying it even happens!

  As far as I can see, there isn't a religion on this whole f-ing planet that is free from the sickly scourge of child abuse. Hell, in some countries it's state-sanctioned for cripe's sake. Do you spend as much time deconstructing them?

  Yah yah JWs claim to be the one true religion blah blah but so what? So does the entire non-christian world. Balanced educated people see thru that and realize that there is imperfection and serious problems in every faith, because they're all run by IMPERFECT PEOPLE!

  Sounds to me like this body of elders has sat down and developed a zero tolerance policy for child abuse. Copy the speech, take it to your local elders and demand that they implement similar policies.

  As for the person who made the comment that elders are ignoring DNA evidence that has resulted in criminal convictions, you'd better substantiate that.

  And finally, not to be callous to the real victims, the kids, but if you as a parent run to the elders first when your kid tells you that they've been molested by your husband, brother, local ms, elder, whatever, YOU ARE A COMPLETE FOOL. Use your head and go to the police and report the CRIME. Dont point to the Watchtower article way back when that didnt render the same advice, I read it too and they didnt tell you not to, did they? I said it in another thread, it'll be pretty hard for someone to maintain their standing in the congregation when they are ROTTING IN A JAIL CELL!!!

  And finally, and ultimately, if someone IS convicted, serves their jail sentence and attends the rehabilitative counselling that is usually a part of the conditions of their release, is reproved and DOES repent, just who are you to say that they can't worship God again? I think even in society at large we still believe in the concept of rehabilitation and forgiveness, do we not??

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  "Well the God I believe in isn't short of cash, mister!"

  Bullet the Blue Sky, Rattle n Hum version
• 

  moman

  "Apology from the Governing Body"? ha ha he he lol
  God does not do that often!
• 

  Quotes

  The veracity of the comments aside (I also join others to aske matrix exaclty how he/she obtained these comments for reposting so precisely) the following caugh my eye:

  Don’t just assume that because your child is with a family member that everything is o.k. In this sick, perverted world, we must be very careful who is around our children

  The problem is one of molestors inside the congregation. Therefore, this statement means that the congregation is "part of the world".

  Thanks for the admission Matrix, that is what we have been saying all along! Finally something we can agree on: JWs are no different from, no better than, anyone else or any other group.

  ===========================
  For interesting Watchtower Society literature quotes, complete with references but without any editorial, check out: http://Quotes.JehovahsWitnesses.com
• 

  hawkaw

  bonovox,

  Does the Catholic church shun victims? No
  Does the Catholic Church expel advocates? No
  Does the Catholic church allow child rapists to go out and knock on somebody's door with or without an untrained witness? No
  Has the WTS even admitted there is a problem in the Borg? No, but at least the Catholics have at least gone that far.
  Is the 2 witness rule still in effect? Yes
  Are witnesses encouraged to go to the police? No, but the Catholics are.

  These are just some of the problems not addressed by the letter read to all congregations.

  Go read http://www.silentlambs.org

  hawk
• 

  crawdad2

  hi bonovox!!!!

  any "changes in policy" by the gov body on the issue of child molestation, are comming about by the effort of "silent lambs", and sites like this one.

  so you want them to hurry up and shut up?

  i see right through you bonovox.... you want everyone to leave the gov body alone.......
• 

  bonovox

  Hawk you've raised some interesting points here:

  >>Does the Catholic church shun victims? No<<

  No, but they won't shun the perps either, so I guess it evens out.

  >>Does the Catholic Church expel advocates? No<<

  In this day and age I think it's almost impossible to get expelled from the RCC...oh, thats right, if you remarry or use a condom..:P

  >>Does the Catholic church allow child rapists to go out and knock on somebodies door with or without an untrained witness? No<<

  No, they just allow them to continue to get up on the pulpit every Sunday and preach...

  >>Has the WTS even admitted there is a problem in the Borg?<<

  Uh, yes, they have, by very virtue of giving a talk on the matter. If there wasn't a problem, why the talks and articles some of which predated the Dateline episode? Thats not rocket science.
  
  >>but at least the Catholics have at least gone that far.<<

  No they haven't. The laity has. The clergymen in question are still lyingly denying it through their teeth.

  >>Is the 2 witness rule still in effect? Yes<<

  As I said, looking at that elder's speech, looks like change it coming.

  >>Are witnesses encouraged to go to the police?<<

  Be a living breathing thinking human being. I touched on it in another thread, to which noone responded. If someone murders someone, do you call your PO?? Give me a break. Use the brain Jehovah gave you and call the police. Does the Society offer driver's ed courses too? Why must people blindly rely for Society encouragement on every single facet of their lives?

  >>No, but the Catholics are. <<

  Oh, that's right, and then when they do and the entire world parks outside their gates demanding answers, they hide in their church, waiting for the dust to settle so they can run back to Rome to regroup.

  BTW, I have visited SilentLambs, and along with the issue of the information having gaps and not being completely up to date (which I asked for answers in another thread), I also wonder why people are encouraged to report their experiences for simply the purpose of a survey. Why not post profiles and pictures up of the alleged perpetrators? They do it for abortionists and pedophiles elsewhere, and civil suits launched against people who run such sites have been largely unsuccessful. I personally think that would be one of THE most effective ways to blow this thing wide open and get these wolves out from admidst the sheep. Shame them and expose them to the point where they just have to leave.

  --------------------------------------------------------

  "Well the God I believe in isn't short of cash, mister!"

  Bullet the Blue Sky, Rattle n Hum version