Dateline discussed openly in our congregation (page 5)

Pathofthorns

I think Amazing's remarks seem right down the middle and are probably closest to what the actual situation is in this case.

Path

RedhorseWoman

If these quotes are, in fact, correct, and if they are, in fact, a true representation of the way things will be handled in that congregation, then this is definitely a step forward.

However, it would certainly have been better if such guidelines had been issued by the Society itself, rather than ONE elder in ONE congregation.

Unfortunately, this type of statement (which is in no way an "open" discussion, BTW) by one person does NOT indicate that the Society has changed its stance in any way, or that any future victims (and, yes, there will be many) will receive any different treatment than others have already received.

Such a shame.

SYN

Just thought I'd tear apart another hit & run post from "The Matrix". Dude, you have obviously filled your stomach with BLUE PILLS! You do not know how deep the rabbit-hole GOES!

I find it terribly hard to believe that an Elder said these things from the platform. Very hard indeed.

Your Elder who said these things is probably going to be un-Eldered or at least very heavily reproved soon for saying these things. It's only a matter of time. If he attempts to apply this "policy" of his own, Mother Brooklyn will stamp on his fingers, and quickly too!

There is no way you can make us believe this was an actual talk. It truly raises my feathers if someone says that a long-time Elder could say things like these.

I'd love to know what Mama thinks of this Elder right about now. They're probably moving to disfellowship him already for bringing reproach upon "Jehovah"'s name!

But, I know that you'll not reply to this...so there's no point really...this is little more than a rumour if you don't reply and answer the questions people have asked here. Remember, most of us have been in this game for a very long time, and we know how the BORG works.

out4good3

then will you question the elder as to why? Of course not, if the elder is giving you this warning then it must be for a good reason, follow his counsel and protect your children.

Just don't tell anyone else or you risk opening yourself to being df'd for slander.

ItsJustlittleoldme

Hi Matrix,

Thanks for the "insight".. Could you ask the elder one question, and get back to me on that one?

Ask him if a JW is accused of Child abuse and convicted by the police/law of the land, yet there are NOT 2 witnesses and therefor 'scripturally' he has not been convicted within the congregation itself, and then moves to a new hall, say 1000 miles away, will the elders of the 'old' hall inform the new hall of his conviction? Or do they only forward along information if it's from within the congregation (reproves, DF'd etc)??

I would be very interested to hear that one, as the speech the elder gave as you remembered seem to indicate that all incidents of molestation will be reported to the authorities, yet a 'different scale' is used to prove guilt within the congregation itself..

StinkyPantz

Bonovox-
I would like to respond to a comment you made:
"And finally, and ultimately, if someone IS convicted, serves their jail sentence and attends the rehabilitative counselling that is usually a part of the conditions of their release, is reproved and DOES repent, just who are you to say that they can't worship God again? I think even in society at large we still believe in the concept of rehabilitation and forgiveness, do we not??"

I am in college and I am obtaining my degree in Criminal Justice. I personally believe that child molesters are not rehabilitatable for the most part. They have the highest recidivism rate of any other criminal. When a molester is put in jail, 1/3 are back in for the same offense. As for the other 2/3's many are still abusing kids and just aren't getting caught. Child abuse is also the most undereported crime.

Here is a bit of research on the subject:
http://www.johnhoward.ab.ca/PUB/C18.htm#sex

My point is: these people should not be allowed to go door to door. When they see children it's like offering crack to a crack head. It's irresistable to them. Also, if they move away to another hall there should be an announcement. If a person abuses a child, they have ruined a life. Who cares how sorry they are? They should have to pay for the rest of their lives just like their victims.

StinkyP

"Keep your friends close, but your enemies even closer"

crawdad2

hi again bonovox!

so, now your side step is......to say you "support" the child abuse issue?... meanwhile you make suttle statements to tear down bill bowen and silent lambs, the organization causing the gov body's reforms....... and you want everyone to just let it roll of their backs, like you.

you are slick, bonovox.
if you really supported the child abuse issue that bill bowen is supporting, you wouln't be supportive of the gov body's policys.
and you certainly wouldn't be attacking silent lambs.

Francois

You either recorded his comments, you have an unbelieveable memory, or you take shorthand.

Which is it?

dubla

bonovox-

Good for you Matrix. I for one have no problem believing that you remembered it long enough till you got home to write it all down.

then yes, you are probably the only one having no problem believing this. again, if this is the case, and matrix has an elephant-like memory, im more than impressed. remembering a few comments is one thing, but four paragraphs, quoted word-for-word is a bit ridiculous.

All you ex-s, of which I am also one, one thing I don't get is, just what exactly do you want? The whole Society to just implode and disband completely?

whos asking for that? how is the society disbanding even relevant to the child abuse issue? you are asking ridiculous questions in an effort to bait.

As far as I can see, there isn't a religion on this whole f-ing planet that is free from the sickly scourge of child abuse.

i havent seen one poster on this forum argue otherwise. every religion doesnt allow for the protecting of molesters the way the wt policies do though.........and why is it that weve been hearing for decades about how jehovahs organization is "clean" and different from all other religions in matters such as these, and now that theyve been exposed all of a sudden its "every religion has this problem"??

Balanced educated people see thru that and realize that there is imperfection and serious problems in every faith, because they're all run by IMPERFECT PEOPLE!

again, this is where the witnesses have always supposedly been different from every other religion, in that they are supposedly run by god himself, not by imperfect people.

Sounds to me like this body of elders has sat down and developed a zero tolerance policy for child abuse.

i doubt this......since when do individual bodies of elders sit down and delvelop their own policies? wouldnt this mean "sects" among the religion?

I said it in another thread, it'll be pretty hard for someone to maintain their standing in the congregation when they are ROTTING IN A JAIL CELL!!!

maybe you didnt watch dateline and the clear evidence that the convicted child molester did indeed maintain his congregation status in jail, went out in service after being released, and was only taken off the publics doorsteps by being re-tried and convicted again.

is reproved and DOES repent, just who are you to say that they can't worship God again?

and who decides if the person DOES "sincerely" repent? a body of imperfect men?

I think even in society at large we still believe in the concept of rehabilitation

society at large isnt on trial here....different subject for a different thread. i think many would agree there are definitely flaws in the legal system of rehabilitation and release. what is on trial is wt policy......the policy that leads to the protection of child abusers.

aa

bonovox

Hi Stinypantz,

Ok we're getting someone here, and I think you've hit on some excellent points! :)

I agree, I think it would be completely dangerous to allow these individuals to go door to door. Maybe the Society needs to look at banning these individuals from field service and in fact from most association with any young people, most definately unsupervised association!

I also completely agree with your statement about child molesters. They ARE largely unreformable. I think that in those cases, tho, the root problem lies not in how they are viewed or 'welcomed back' into the congregation, but whether or not they even get to that stage by being allowed back into the general population again. And quite simply, that has nothing to do with JWs. It has to do with a criminal justice system that has gone awry, in terms of far too lenient sentences and an inability by the state to properly evaluate and deem who is a dangerous offender likely to re-offend. These dangerous types should physically not even be in a position (ie because they are indefinately incarcerated or institutionalized) to even get within 10 miles of their local Kingdom Hall.

And for the small minority (which I apologize for not qualifying completely in that previous post, Im truly sorry) who can be rehabilitated, perhaps the solution for them is that for the rest of their days they are only permitted to associate fully supervised at meetings, with no service? That would perhaps necessitate a change in policy, but like I tried to say earlier (and to quote my fave band lol): 'something, is about to give...I can feel it comin..think I know what it is..'

I don't have all the answers. Just asking the questions.

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"Well the God I believe in isn't short of cash, mister!"

Bullet the Blue Sky, Rattle n Hum version

Dateline discussed openly in our congregation

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