A Timely warning regarding Disfellowshipping. A Mu

by MARTINLEYSHON 38 Replies latest jw friends

  • eyeslice
    eyeslice

    Martin,

    I can really empathise with you.

    I am not df'ed or da'ed, but the events that lead to my stepping down as an elder were fairly brutal. I did nothing wrong personally but I had a fairly minor problem with one of my kids (who incidentally did nothing unscriptural). However, the hardliners took it on themselves to get after me, and I was history.

    I was always very moderate in my views and extremely good at overlooking the imperfections of my fellow elders. I see things a lot differently now. There is so much politics and pulling of rank with the elders. Somewhere along the line we have forgotten the simple truths that Jesus taught and replaced them with all the things he stood up against, petty rules and regulations, class systems, bigotry and hatred.

    I always followed the counsel to "wait on Jehovah to sort things out", and used to think I could work to change some of the wrongs in our congregation. I am not so sure now.

    Eyeslice

  • Jewel
    Jewel

    "The more you tighten your grip, the more star systems will slip through your fingers..."

    Leia Organa in _Star Wars_

    (Beat ya to it, Arachnia!)

    Jewel

  • anewlife
    anewlife

    Martin & Simon I feel for you both. I have to agree with Eyeslice that there seems to be a "pulling of rank and politics" amongst the elders and in the congregations. From my own observations after years as a JW I saw that a lot depended on "who you were" as to the way a matter was handled. My question is Martin, if the body of elders felt that your not meeting with them was an act of disassociating yourself, then if that is proper protocol, shouldn't they just have stated that in an announcement rather than taking it upon themselves to "be kind" and disfellowship you? My opinion is both are equally tarnishing and damaging to you as a person, but because of "who you were" this was the decision that was made? Does that sound like the workings of a United Body or rather does it sound like personal opinions and feelings of imperfect men? Once again, my point is, Who are they as imperfect human beings to sit in judgement of others and presume to be able to read a person's heart and mind? This is a matter that should be left strictly up to God and Christ! Therefore, if one wants to leave ANY religion he should be able to do so quietly without any "announcement" of sorts and ultimately answer to God!

  • SYN
    SYN

    Simon, Martin, you guys must face down these people and make a stand!

  • singsongboi
    singsongboi

    hey! guys... i feel voiceless at these evident demonstrations of sublime ridiculousness...

    maybe, when guys like martin and simon, really start to cause trouble, by appearing at the hall and loudly disputing the actions (and the lack of conformity to the rule books), and in consequence, the R & F start to get disturbed, then people will be allowed to resign or fade away and the stupid, fanciful, egomania will come to it's end.

    this policy is based on one piece of paranoidal, fanciful thinking only -- and that is, these guys think they will become princes in all the earth, they think that they are above all other law, above all other standards of thinking, that they have " divine right' to act.

    i have known elders that spoke admiringly of the right that the elders in israel had to stone offenders to death.

    this sort of thinking can only be overcome when the consequences become unpleasant for the BOE and their congregations..

    sort of sad isn't it??

    POOR, POOR JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES

  • DakotaRed
    DakotaRed

    Is this more “new light” or do they have different rules and regulations in the UK? From the “Pay Attention To Yourselves and to All The Flock” book, I read;

    Pages 99, 100:

    Baptized persons who have not associated for some time.

    If you learn of serious wrongdoing on the part of such a
    person, the matter should be investigated if it poses a
    threat to the congregation's cleanness and welfare or causes a public scandal.

    Consider the following:

    Does he still profess to be a Witness?

    Is he generally recognized as such in the congregation and/or the community?

    Does the person have a measure of contact or association with the congregation so that a leavening, or corrupting, influence exists?
    How did the matter become known to the elders?

    Is the person willing to meet with a committee,
    thus admitting accountability to the Christian congregation?
    Depending upon length of inactivity and other factors
    suggested above, elders may determine to hold the
    matter in abeyance.

    In such a case, a record of the person's questionable
    conduct should be made for the congregation file so
    that everything noted might be clarified when the
    person shows interest in becoming active again.

    If the sinful conduct is known only to believing family
    members and no congregation action is taken because
    of the factors outlined above, believing relatives will
    likely determine to curtail family association severely,
    viewing the relative as bad association. ( I Cor. 15:33)

    If the individual still professes to be a Witness and is
    willing to meet with the judicial committee, the matter
    should be handled in the normal way. However, when
    factors such as possible legal action exist, it is best to
    consult the Society before proceeding. (w87 9/1 p. 14)

    If individuals Persist in "walking, disorderly" in serious
    violation of well-established Bible principles, but not yet
    to a degree warranting judicial action, they may be
    «marked» by members of the congregation. (2 Thess. 3:
    6, 14, 15; w85 4/15 pp. 30-1; om pp. 152-3)

    However, this would occur only after repeated efforts to
    provide authoritative Scriptural counsel and admonition
    have been ignored and in many cases after a warning talk
    has been given to the congregation. (w85 4/15 pp. 30-1;
    w81 9/1 pp. 19-21 )

    If a person who has been marked continues his wrongful
    course in brazen defiance of Christian standards, adamantly rejecting loving Scriptural counsel, judicial action may be taken if the situation becomes scandalous loose conduct.

    On page 110 & 111, I also find;

    If the accused repeatedly fails to come to the hearing,
    the committee will proceed with the hearing but will not
    make a decision until evidence and any testimony by
    witnesses are considered.

    The committee should not take action against a person
    unless the evidence clearly proves this necessary.

    Failure to appear before the committee is not in itself
    proof of guilt.

    Now, as I see it, if there is no “proof of guilt,” how can one be considered disfellowshipped or disassociated? Sounds like the old Watchtower shuffle and let’s get rid of those who don’t wish to drink the Kool-Aid attitude to me.

    Can we expect to soon see the twenty foot barbed wire fences, guard towers and mine fields around Kingdom Halls and the Society's buildings as East Germany and Chzechslovokia once used to keep their citizens in?

  • Kaethra
    Kaethra

    Eyeslice - Can you imagine any jw answering the question: Why didn't Jesus wait on Jehovah instead of calling down the Pharisees himself?

  • JT
    JT

    oNE OF THE MOST interesting things about the judical process is that for the most part the elders are pretty much free to df anyone that they deem.

    while one can appleal and so forth -- for the most part the actions of a judical committee will stand, are there cases where the branch or brooklyn reversed a decision O YEA ,

    but for the most part the service dept feels that appeals based on improper organizational procedure by the judical committee are not reason enough to reverse most decisions.

    allow me to give you a perfect example.

    one of the elders in my hall was a former bethelite, former missionary,and former member of the branch committee

    he still retained his voting member of the corp- and he used to go up every oct to vote at the standley theater in jersey city, NJ

    he started doing things independent of the body, we talked to him

    i begged him to get his act together he was one of the most arrongant black bro i knew and he loved it cause as he put it all of us are equal now black bro and white bro

    he had major , major connections at bethel since he was appointed directely by the GB to the branch he used to serve at and the rights to be a VOTING MEMBER

    well anyway each visit of the co resulted in the co sending in his report to brooklyn stating that their was tension on the body and how he encouraged us to LIFT UP LOYAL HANDS

    HE WOULD report that the friends in the hall sensed tension on the body, he would not call on certain elders if they had their hands up when he was conduction a part from the platform

    and this tension continued to buiild and build

    till finally we had the CA and we were the host congo

    the do was Paul Ellingsworth and the co was Kent Karass

    so a letter was drafted all the elders signed it except one elder who was his sidekick flunky( he used to invite him and his wife to the annual meeting almost every year so he was not going to bite the hand that treated him)

    so here we have 6elders sign off on removal as an elder, the CO and the DO al sign off on the sunday at the end of the CA

    monday the DO is dropping the letter in the mail to NY

    monday morning this bro hits a US Air from DC to NY returns on tues and comes to the meeting with the biggest grin on his face

    2 weeks later we get our letter along with ellingsworth and the karass
    NO DELETION instead we are told to show more than the usual love

    that due to his long years of service he should remain..

    i was the SEC at the time and i was in the office that night we all read the letter and he walked in and said:

    "you clowns sent up those Frivous charges and they kicked it back to you"

    i told him man you may have connections at the house ( his running buddy was Robert (BOB) Jones who was a heavy in the service dept)
    but jah knows that the way you are dealing with your bro is wrong
    jah is giving you a second chance to get your program together.

    and he told me -- Like i said you all sent up those frious charges and they kicked them back.

    so my point is the wt has many rules /procedures and policies, but when they want to suspend them they can and they do

    James

    2 eand

  • SEAKEN2001
    SEAKEN2001

    James,

    man, I like reading your stuff but DAMN, would you please work on your formatting, puncuation and spelling? Sometimes it takes me reading three or four times to sort it out!

    If I didn't appreciate what you have to say I wouldn't work that hard to read it.

    Sean

  • Dino
    Dino

    puncuation?

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