She declined to testify-typical

by Dogpatch 21 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Dogpatch

  Court Hears Church Confession Case

  By DAVID A. LIEB
  .c The Associated Press

  JEFFERSON CITY, Mo. (AP) - A prosecutor asked the state Supreme Court on Tuesday to allow him to subpoena religious leaders who listened to a man who allegedly confessed to sexually abusing two children.

  Texas County Prosecutor Doug Gaston wants to use Robert Eisenhouer's
  statements as evidence against him in a rape and sodomy case.

  Eisenhouer's wife told investigators that Eisenhouer confessed his sexual involvement with the children to church elders, Gaston said. But she declined to testify, and the church officials' testimony was needed as proof of the confession.

  A judge previously quashed subpoenas against the two Jehovah's Witness church officials, saying the state law that Gaston relied upon violates the federal Constitution's First Amendment protection of freedom of religion.

  The law says that any legal shield for communication - except that between an attorney and client - does not apply to situations involving suspected child abuse or neglect.

  But Gaston asked the Supreme Court to overturn that decision.

  ``If we compel the elders of the church to testify against the church
  members, doesn't that in some way affect the exercise of their religious beliefs?'' Supreme Court Judge Michael Wolff said.

  ``It absolutely does,'' Gaston replied, but he said it is a permissible infringement because the intent of the state law is to protect children.

  Joy Hutcheson, an attorney for the church officials, said the law ``directly attacks religion.''

  AP-NY-02-27-01 2033EST
• 

  nelly136

  thats gross, doesnt that make her an accessory? not sure how your crime system works, if the elders can be subpoena'd cant she?
  well if they refuse to testify just perhaps it will make more people aware of how the jws deal with molestation cases, not that it helps the kids in this case much.
  nelly
• 

  peaceloveharmony

  Hey Nelly,

  i think in the US there is a law that spouses can't be subpeona'd to testify against spouses.

  anyone here know for sure?

  harmony
• 

  Frenchy

  PLH: That's correct. A wife cannot be made to testify against her husband.

  -Seen it all, done it all, can't remember most of it-
• 

  waiting

  Hey randy,

  She declined to testify - typical

  I've seem to notice a pattern on the web. When parents speak about the hurt and rage of their children being molested/raped - it is almost universal that it's the woman speaking, anonymously. Typically, the father is absent from the conversation altogether - why?

  My mother covered for my father for decades. I have no compassion for her. Mates cover for each other all the time, all throughout history. If that typical jw woman testifies, she most likely will lose her husband, her religion, any jw family she has, and her friends. If she is truly righteous, she might do it. If she has no education, no income of her own to raise any/all children she has, if she can't get a job - she will probably think twice. If she perceives herself as fat, ugly, and ignorant, as a lot of abused wives perceive themselves, she won't step out of the mold that she, her husband, the WTBTS, and society at large has put upon her. If her repugnant husband has been beating her all along - it will take a hell of a lot to get her to go against him.

  Does she have outside support in going against her husband? The parents of the other children, their lawyers, social services, etc. - have they given her options for when she loses everything she has, possibly everything she has ever known?

  Again the question - why is the father absent from conversations detailing the actions of a rapist/molester on his precious son/daughter? Why will the women speak about it on the web, in whispers in the KH? Then, in turn, the woman is scorned for not testifying against her husband in open court?

  I am not justifying her actions in any way. I am saying it is a complicated situation for all involved. If the woman is not offered support to accomplish going against all her norms, and feels she has no options in her future, then not only would her actions by typical, so would the persons who encourage her to testify, but don't actually help her in any way. Wanting from her - but giving nothing in return for all that she will lose by testifying.

  Perhaps those of you who would want another to give up everything they have, know, and love, for others - should also offer their longterm shoulder, income, and support for the Davids going against the Goliaths.

  I have no answers, but to dub her as "typical" of women is offensive.

  waiting
• 

  larc

  Waiting,

  I think it is very difficult for women in general to escape abuse and go to a shelter, seek counseling, etc. I think as you well described, it is doubly difficult for a Witness woman to do so, because they often have no support from their congregation and risk being expelled as well.

  I went back and read the previous posts and wouldn't find the word typical associated with the woman's refusal to testify. Did I miss something?
• 

  waiting

  hey larc,

  I was bent out of shape a tad - was it obvious?

  The subject of this thread is: RE: SHE DECLINED TO TESTIFY - TYPICAL

  To lump women as "typical" is offensive.
  To lump jw women as "typical" is offensive.
  To lump women into a negative pile as "typical" is offensive.

  Of course, being a woman, I could be "typically" over reacting.......

  waiting

  Edited by - waiting on 28 February 2001 15:26:36
• 

  larc

  Waiting,

  I failed to read the title of the thread until after I had posted. When I first read the title, I took it to mean "typical" of JWs, but you are right in that it could have been slanted against women. I also agree with you as I stated above that is generaly more dificult for JW women than it is for nonJW women. I believe that most women feel trapped in their oppression and find it very difficult to get out of it.

  Waiting, you wax quite eloquent when you write on this subject. Have you ever thought about writing a book on women's issues and how they are exaserbated by the JW culture? Years ago, I wanted to write a book about the psychology of JWs. I spent about six months on it and generated about 150 of draft material. Unfortunately, I didn't have the emotional stamina to spend another year it would take to bring it to completion. I still draw on it for information I post here from time to time, so it wasn't a total waste. Waiting, thank you again for your incisive omments.
• 

  Seven

  Dogpatch, Were the two abused children related to R. Eisenhouer? I attempted searching the net for this info today and came up empty. What I did find were hundreds of similar cases across the nation-state after state. I could scroll for hours. The children always lose. The lambs are still screaming.
• 

  SixofNine

  Waiting, aren't you getting a bit hysterical?

  Six taking cover now.