My Mother Might Get Called B4 a JC!!!

by teenyuck 18 Replies latest jw friends

  • DakotaRed
    DakotaRed

    You and your Mom both should read this article, Puffs, if you haven't already

    http://www.xjw.com/shunning.html

    Copyright 1996 BEACON All rights reserved.


    Jehovah's Witnesses and Shunning


    One of the characteristics of a destructive religion is an enforced policy that requires the members to shun anyone who leaves or gets expelled from the religion. It is a common trait among esoteric movements that claim to be "the Truth." Members are required to sever association with even their own family members and relatives who leave. The consequences of this harsh doctrinal policy are extreme, shattering family relationships and leaving the victims emotionally and spiritually devastated. Suicides or attempted suicides are not uncommon.

    Jehovah's Witnesses are among the religious groups that practice extreme shunning of former members. Of all the Watchtower Society's legalistic doctrines, this one is perhaps the most responsible for uprising among former members against the Organization that has resulted in exhaustive examination and exposs of their flawed teachings and history.

    Former members who disavow faith in the Watchtower organization's doctrines are branded "apostates." Jehovah's Witnesses are taught that they must hate such ones. An article titled "Search Through Me, O God" appeared in the October 1, 1993 Watchtower. Speaking about "apostates" on page 19, beginning with paragraph 15, we read:

    15 Regarding them, the psalmist said: "Do I not hate
    those who are intensely hating you, O Jehovah, and do I
    not feel a loathing for those revolting against you? With a
    complete hatred I do hate them. They have become to
    me real enemies." (Psalm 139:21, 22) It was because
    they intensely hated Jehovah that David looked on them
    with abhorrence. Apostates are included among those
    who show their hatred of Jehovah by revolting against him.
    Apostasy is, in reality, a rebellion against Jehovah. Some
    apostates profess to know and serve God, but they reject
    teachings or requirements set out in his Word. Others
    claim to believe the Bible, but they reject Jehovah's
    organization and actively try to hinder its work. When they
    deliberately choose such badness after knowing what is
    right, when the bad becomes so ingrained that it is an
    inseparable part of their makeup, then a Christian must
    hate (in the Biblical sense of the word) those who have
    inseparably attached themselves to the badness. True
    Christians share Jehovah's feelings toward such
    apostates; they are not curious about apostate ideas. On
    the contrary, they "feel a loathing" toward those who have
    made themselves God's enemies, but they leave it to
    Jehovah to execute vengeance.--Job 13:16; Romans
    12:19; 2 John 9, 10.

    An article in The Watchtower, September 15, 1981, on page 29 under the heading " DISFELLOWSHIPED RELATIVES NOT LIVING AT HOME " has this to say (beginning at paragraph 18):

    18 The second situation that we need to consider is that
    involving a disfellowshiped or disassociated relative who is
    not in the immediate family circle or living at one's home.
    Such a person is still related by blood or marriage, and so
    there may be some limited need to care for necessary
    family matters. Nonetheless, it is not as if he were living
    in the same home where contact and conversation could
    not be avoided. We should keep clearly in mind the
    Bible's inspired direction: "Quit mixing in company with
    anyone called a brother that is a fornicator or a greedy
    person . . . , not even eating with such a man."--1 Cor.
    5:11.

    See also the reference to this article on page 20 of The Watchtower, November 15, 1988.


    Disfellowshipping versus SHUNNING
    The point of this commentary will be to show that the Watchtower Society's shunning doctrine does not adhere to the Bible. Further, an understanding of congregational practices of first-century Christians in the Jewish culture is necessary for a proper understanding of the scriptures on this matter.

    The primary scripture for consideration is:

    But now I am writing you to quit mixing in company with anyone called a brother that is a fornicator or a greedy person or an idolater or a reviler or a drunkard or an extortioner, not even eating with such a man.
    --1.Cor. 5:11 (NWT)

    The text is clear that a person with whom the congregation should not mix company is one who is:
    1) "called a brother" (that is, one who professes to be a member of the congregation); and
    2) practicing fornication, greed, idolotry, reviling (insulting), habitual drunkeness, and/or extortion (theft).

    • Jehovah's Witnesses do not disfellowship greedy persons.
    • They often do not disfellowship people who regularly get drunk unless their conduct becomes so outrageous and publicly-known as to bring reproach upon Jehovah's Witnesses.
    • They do not disfellowship people for many of the things which they themselves class as "idolatry" (for example: materialism, worshipping an organization, etc.).
    • On the other hand, Jehovah's Witnesses do disfellowship and shun people for:
      • no longer claiming to be called a brother/sister.
      • independent study and discussion of the Bible that brings Watchtower doctrine into question.
      • possession of literature written by former members.
      • having lunch with a former member, even if the former member professes to be a Christian and was not disfellowshipped for fornication, greed, idolotry, reviling, drunkeness, or extortion.
      • attending a service of any other church or religious organization.
      • authorizing a blood transfusion, even to save the life of a child.
      • numerous other actions not mentioned in scripture, but deemed by the congregation elders to be "unclean conduct," or "conduct unbecoming" of a Jehovah's Witness. "Conduct" in this case covers a broad range of actions not clearly defined by the Society, leaving discernment about what is not acceptable to the discretion of the congregation's elders. As a result, standards by which people may be disfellowshiped are inconsistent throughout this religion which claims "unity" to be one of their identifying characteristics.

    "Not to be mixing in company with" . . . "not even eating with . . ."
    Here it is important to learn the customs of association for worship practiced by first-century Jews and Christians, bearing in mind that Jesus and the apostles were Jews. They lived according to the Jewish lifestyle and customs of their day. Jesus taught in the synogogues; hence, he was called "Rabbi." Matt.26:25; 26:49; Mark 9:5; 11:21; 14:25; John 1:38, 49; 3:2, 26; 4:31; 6:25; 9:2; 11:8

    There were two kinds of association for religious worship:
    1) public meetings, such as at the temple and in synogogues, which anyone was allowed to attend; and
    2) private gatherings of the different sects.
    Christians and Jews participated in both. Christians, met in private homes, usually over a special meal with prayer. A presiding minister hosted the meal using either fellowship funds or personal funds. (Acts 20:20; see the footnote in older editions of the NWT)

    Christians were instructed to "greet" one another with a kiss. (Rom.16:16; 1.Cor.16:20; 2Cor.13:12; Ti.3:15; 1Pet.5:14) When Paul sent his "greetings" in a letter to the Christians in Thessalonica, he requested that the "brothers" be greeted by a "holy kiss" on his behalf. (1Thess.5:26)
    It was by this sign that Judas betrayed Jesus. (Luke 22:47,48)

    Clearly, Paul did instruct Christians to expel from the congregation's fellowship any person who was purposely practicing willful sin. The disassociation would quite naturally exclude them from being greeted by the identifying "holy kiss," as well as not being allowed to share in meetings and the meals for Christian worship and prayer. However, Paul's instruction did not prohibit normal conversation or witnessing to former members. Nor were they barred from attending worship in the temple or the synagogues. Jesus, the apostles and Paul, along with the rest of the Jews, worshipped God both publicly in the temple and synagogues, and privately with small groups in various homes. (Acts 5:42) It was from the private Christian fellowship for worship that sinners were excluded.

    What of 2 John 10,11?

    If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, never receive him into your homes or say a greeting to him. For he that says a greeting to him is a sharer in his wicked works.--2 John 11 (NWT)

    The above scripture is not about people who have been expelled from the Christian congregation. When read in context, it is about anyone who "does not bring this teaching" [of the Christ]. Because they held congregation meetings in their homes (which might be little more than a dug-out or tent outside the city walls of Jerusalem), in their culture their neighbors might view inviting a non-Christian into the home as the Christian sharing worship with non-Christians.

    • Jehovah's Witnesses, while shunning disfellowshipped or disassociated persons, do not prohibit them from attending the congregation meetings at their Kingdom Halls. Yet the congregation was specifically where Paul instructed Christians not be be "mixing in company with" disfellowshipped sinners.
    • If the scripture at 2 John 10 were observed literally by Jehovah's Witnesses, they would be obliged to never invite anyone other than a Jehovah's Witness in good standing into their home, or ever speak a greeting to anyone other than a Jehovah's Witness.

    How did Jesus say one expelled from congregation should be treated?

    Moreover, if your brother commits a sin, go lay bare his fault between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. But if he does not listen, take along with you one or two more, in order that at the mouth of two or three witnesses every matter may be established. If he does not listen to them, speak to the congregation. If he does not listen even to the congregation, let him be to you just as a man of the nations ['Gentile' in some translations] and as a tax collector.--Matt.18:15-17 (NWT)
    • The instruction was to bring up the matter of sin first between the two individuals alone. Then, if the sinner would repent, there was no need to carry the matter further. If the sinner was not repentant, then one or two others should be sought for witnesses. If the sinner remained unrepentant, only then, as a last resort, should it be brought before the entire congregation (not privately with the "elders").
    • If, after all that, the person was still would not listen, he should then be treated the same as Gentiles and tax collectors. In other words, Christians were to treat former members just like anyone else who was not a member of the congregation. To be treated like a "man of the nations" (which is to say, a Gentile or foreigner) was far from being shunned. Jewish people worked with, associated with, transacted business with, and preached to Gentiles. As for "tax collectors," Jesus ate and associated with them. Matthew was a tax collector. Tax collectors were not popular, but they were not shunned.
      Next, while passing along from there, Jesus caught sight of a man named Matthew seated at the tax office, and he said to him: "Be my follower." Thereupon he did rise up and follow him. Later, while he was reclining at the table in the house, look! many tax collectors and sinners came and began reclining with Jesus and his disciples. But on seeing this the Pharisees began to say to his disciples: "Why is it that your teacher eats with tax collectors and sinners?" Hearing [them], he said: "Persons in health do not need a physician, but the ailing do. Go, then, and learn what this means, 'I want mercy, and not sacrifice.' For I came to call, not righteous people, but sinners."
    --Matt.9:9-13 NWT

    Conclusion
    There is no scripture basis for mandating that Christians must totally shun former members (that is, have no communication or conversation with them). The instruction is to expel them from the congregation and treat them like anyone else who is not a member. Especially, there is no scripture to support shunning of one's own relatives--parents, children and siblings.

    If anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially for his immediate family, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever."--1 Tim.5:8 (NIV)

    Even for the rest, Paul counseled against abandoning those separated from the congregation:

    For your part, brothers, do not give up in doing right. But if anyone is not obedient to our word through this letter, keep this one marked, stop associating with him, that he may become ashamed. And yet do not be considering him as an enemy, but continue admonishing him as a brother.
    --2Thes.3:13-15 NWT

    Instruction in the undistributed elders' guide
    When a Jehovah's Witness male qualifies to be an elder in the congregation, he is assigned an uncirculated proprietary book that gives instruction for counseling and disciplinary actions according to the Society's rules. The title of this book is Pay Attention To Yourselves and to All the Flock. Interestingly, on the bottom of page 103 in that book, it is stated that Jehovah's Witnesses need not be disfellowshipped for associating with disfellowshipped relatives except if the association involves "spiritual association" or if there is an attempt to excuse the former member's objectional behavior. It says:

    "Normally, a close relative would not be disfellowshipped for associating with a disfellowshipped person unless there is spiritual association or an effort made to excuse the wrongful course."--"Flock book", page 103, last paragraph.

    Despite this documented exclusion, Jehovah's Witnesses the world over are taught that to please Jehovah God they must shun their siblings, their children, and even their parents who either choose to leave or are disfellowshipped--especially if the crime is variance with Watchtower doctrine for which they are branded "apostates." And it is a fact that many Witnesses have been disfellowshipped for refusing to shun their disfellowshipped relatives.

      The law of love
      If the law of Christianity can be summed up in one word, it is "LOVE." Does not love rescue and recover the sinner? Would Jesus shun the sheep who strayed from the flock?

      Now all the tax collectors and the sinners kept drawing near to him to hear him. Consequently both the Pharisees and the scribes kept muttering saying: "This man welcomes sinners and eats with them." Then he spoke this illustration to them, saying: "What man of you with a hundred sheep, on losing one of them, will not leave the ninety-nine behind in the wilderness and go for the lost one until he finds it? And when he has found it he puts it upon his shoulders and rejoices. And when he gets home he calls his friends and his neighbors together, saying to them, 'Rejoice with me, because I have found my sheep that was lost.' I tell you that thus there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner that repents than over ninety-nine righteous ones who have no need of repentance.--Luke 15:1-7 (NWT)

      Note that the sheep did not have to come back and find the shepherd, the shepherd went after the lost sheep.

      Let us pray that the Watchtower Society will soon be blessed with "new light" on their policy of extremist shunning of former members, thereby liberating thousands--both within and out of the organization--from the heart-strickening anguish imposed by this cruel, unjust, and unscriptural dogma.


      It's no wonder Santa is so jolly. He knows where all the bad girls live.

  • Prisca
    Prisca

    Hi Puffs,

    Has anyone sent you a copy of this?


    To Whom It May Concern,

    I have decided that I will not formally disassociate myself from the P________ Congregation of Jehovahs Witnesses or from Jehovahs Witnesses in general. I came to this decision for several reasons. First, there is nothing I see in the Bible that calls for a formal letter of disassociation in my situation, or any other. It seems to me that the provision of formal disassociation is a matter of convenience for the legal department of the Watchtower Society rather than serving any real religious purpose. It allows people to be pigeon-holed into nice neat little categories rather than dealing with the real issues involved. Also, I have no problem with the P________ Congregation or its members. My disagreement is with certain actions, policies, teachings and writings contained in publications that are produced and in oral teachings promulgated either individually or collectively by the Governing Body of Jehovahs Witnesses and its legal corporations, the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, Inc. the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania, Inc. and the International Bible Students Association.

    The purpose of this letter is to clarify certain matters and to secure and protect what I consider basic human rights in dealing with agents of the multinational, multi-billion dollar Watchtower corporations.

    Since you have asked me to appear before a judicial committee to face charges of apostacy, there are a few things that I must ask for and which I feel must be clarified before I will even consider meeting with a judicial committee.

    1. I shall be notified in writing of the time, place and purpose of any meetings with a judicial committee.

    2. I shall be notified in writing of the exact purpose of the meetings.

    3. I shall be notified in writing exactly on whose behalf the judicial committee was convened and is acting: the P________ Congregation of Jehovahs Witnesses or its legal corporation the P________ Company of Jehovahs Witnesses, the Governing Body of Jehovahs Witnesses or its legal corporations, the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, Inc. the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania, Inc., the International Bible Students Association or any other agency not here named.

    4. If any other agency other than the one for whom the judicial committee has informed me they are acting for is consulted, reported to, or allowed to have any bearing on the outcome of the judicial process, I will consider the judicial committee as acting in the their behalf.

    5. I shall be notified in writing as to my status as a member of any and all of the organizations for which the committee is acting or to which the committee will report.

    6. I insist that the judicial committee immediately cease, and in the future desist from any actions toward or against me in behalf of any corporation or organization of which I am not a member.

    7. I shall be notified in writing of any accusations against me, the names of persons making such accusations and the substance of any evidence against me.

    8. I shall be notified in writing of any and all of my rights and responsibilities involved in the judicial process.

    9. I shall be given sufficient time between notification of any meetings with a judicial committee and the time of the actual meeting to prepare a response to any accusations.

    10. I shall be allowed to have one person of my choice present during all meetings between me and the judicial committee as an observer. Since I think there is good reason to believe that the judicial committee may consult with one or more lawyers, specifically those employed by the Legal Department of Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, Incorporated, the person of my choice may also be a lawyer.

    11. During the meetings with the judicial committee I and/or my observer will be allowed to take whatever notes we feel are necessary.

    Additionally, if the judicial committee takes any judicial action against me :

    12. I will not recognize any action taken by the judicial committee as valid unless it is communicated to me in writing, stating the exact nature and reason for the action.

    13. In this written communication the judicial committee must state exactly on whose behalf they have taken the action, specifically the P________ Congregation of Jehovahs Witnesses or its legal corporation the P________ Company of Jehovahs Witnesses, the Governing Body of Jehovahs Witnesses or its legal corporations, the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, Inc. the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania, Inc., the International Bible Students Association or any other agency not here named.

    14. If the judicial committee has stated that it is acting only for the P________ Congregation of Jehovahs Witnesses, it is enjoined from notifying any agency outside the congregation of their action. If the judicial committee or anyone acting in their behalf notifies of reports to anyone outside the P________ Congregation of Jehovahs Witnesses, I may take any appropriate legal action.

    15. I may appeal any action taken by the judicial committee.

    16. Before I will meet with an appeal committee, that committee must notify me in writing of the names of all of the members of the appeal committee and who each one represents: the P________ Congregation of Jehovahs Witnesses or its legal corporation the P________ Company of Jehovahs Witnesses, the Governing Body of Jehovahs Witnesses or its legal corporations, the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, Inc. the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania, Inc., the International Bible Students Association or any other agency not here named

    17. There shall be no contact between the judicial committee and the appeal committee other than to inform them of the time and place of my meetings with them. If I determine that there is any contact, communication or attempt on the part of any of the members of the original judicial committee or anyone acting on their behalf to, in any way prejudice or sway the appeal committee, I will insist that a new appeal committee be formed.

    18. I shall be notified in writing of any and all of my rights and responsibilities involved in the appeal process.

    19. I shall be allowed to have one person of my choice present during the all meetings between me and the appeal committee. Since I think there is good reason to believe that the appeal committee may consult with one or more lawyers, specifically those employed by the Legal Department of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, Incorporated, the person of my choice may also be a lawyer.

    20. During the meetings with the appeal committee I and/or my observer will take whatever notes we feel are necessary.

    21. I will not recognize any action taken by the appeal committee as valid unless it is communicated to me in writing, stating the exact nature and reason for the action.

    22. In this written communication the appeal committee must state exactly on whose behalf they are taking the action, specifically the P________ Congregation of Jehovahs Witnesses or its legal corporation the P________ Company of Jehovahs Witnesses, the Governing Body of Jehovahs Witnesses or its legal corporations, the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, Inc. the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania, Inc., the International Bible Students Association or any other agency not here named.

    23. If the appeal committee has stated that it is acting only for the P________ Congregation of Jehovahs Witnesses, it is enjoined from notifying any agency outside the congregation of their action. If the appeal committee or anyone acting in their behalf notifies or reports to anyone outside the P________ Congregation of Jehovahs Witnesses, I may take any appropriate legal action.

    24. I understand that if I am disfellowshipped by the judicial committee and the disfellowshipping is upheld by the appeal committee that I am, at that point, no longer considered to be one of Jehovahs Witnesses. I also understand that it is
    necessary to make a brief announcement that I have been disfellowshipped. From then on, I will consider any attempt to convince by speeches, talks or teaching; to coerce by implied or actual threat of similar judicial action; or to encourage by private counsel or suggestion any of Jehovahs Witnesses to treat me differently from any other person that is not one of Jehovahs Witnesses to be a serious violation of my civil rights and I may initiate any legal action, civil or criminal that I deem appropriate. This includes any attempt to convince by speeches, talks or teaching; to coerce by implied or actual threat of similar judicial action; or to encourage by private counsel or suggestion any present Jehovahs Witnesses to shun or avoid me, cease or otherwise modify their doing business with me, or terminate or otherwise abrogate any lease, rental, mortgage, or any other legal agreement that I may presently have with them. I may consider such to be an infringement of free trade and may initiate appropriate legal action.

    25. I consider any communication between the members of the judicial committee and myself and the appeal committee and myself to be ecclesiastically privileged. Any attempt to reveal the substance or tone of those communications to any other person or group will be considered by me to be a breach of that privilege and may result in legal action. This includes any announcements beyond the fact of my disfellowshipping, speeches, talks, or any other communication, written or oral, public or private.

    I fully realize that you may be unwilling or that the Watchtower corporations will not allow you to comply with the preceding.

    I respectfully await your written response


    Hope this helps.

  • teenyuck
    teenyuck

    Prisca and Dakota,

    Thank you!! Both are really helpful...I am printing both off.

    I will e-mail my mom both today, in case Bro S calls.

    The thing on DFing and shunning is so psycho, I cannot believe she doesn't walk away.

    The letter was just what I was hoping for. The pointed questions it asks are great.

    Thanks again.

    Tina

  • teenyuck
    teenyuck

    I just called my mom and told her I e-mailed the above info.

    She said that if they do call her before a JC, she will just walk away!!! Now I wish I had not sent her anything. I would love it if she left, however, I would rather she leave after learning the 'truth" about the troof.

    Her best friend, a JW sister, told her to pray on it and maybe nothing will happen. This sis has also been abused by them....her husband was physically abusing her for years and he never got DFd, even after being convicted of assualt of his wife. He was also sleeping with some of his patients and gave her an STD! He is a chiropractor. She was told she was not being "mild and even tempered" and the elders admonished her!

    I really appreciate the info available on this board and all the others. I have a thick pile of selected printouts from the various sites. I think all of that combined with CoC, might make her think, for once.

  • blondie
    blondie

    Just a thought, when people walk away from a big part of their past and social culture, it always helps to have a plan, even to write it down. Has your mother done that?

    How many people quit a job without some kind of plan on how to find another?

    It is easier to quit when you know you have another job waiting.

    It is easier to quit JWs if you have a social structure ready to replace it.

    Been there, done that.

  • Mulan
    Mulan

    Just a quick note. When a disfellowshipping is announced, they don't make the comment "for conduct unbecoming a Christian". Too inflammatory. They stopped that years ago, because of slander lawsuits. They can df but can't defame you publicly. Hmmm.

  • teenyuck
    teenyuck

    Hi Mulan,

    My mom said that the last time they DFd in her hall, about 3 months ago, they said "for conduct unbecoming a christian."

    She also said that at the next meeting they will cover the offenders transgression....sneakily. She said they will give a talk on fornication....even though none of the current literature is on that subject. She said it is well understood that the rest of the cong is being covertly told what the newly DFd one did. She admitted this is to strike fear into the rest of them.

    This may be only in her cong. They do seem to be breaking all the rules.

    blondie, she does have some friends outside the society. I am sure she has no plan...I did suggest she be prepared for the worst and if it happens, she knows I am here for her.

    Edited by - puffsrule on 11 June 2002 11:40:10

  • blondie
    blondie

    It's good she has some friends outside. If she walks away, she will need them. I'm sure you will be good support but you live far away from her, don't you? I really hope nothing bad happens. Most elders I have dealt with aren't in a big hurry to DF people. But if they have a personal dislike for someone and wield some influence over the other elders on the body, look out!

  • joannadandy
    joannadandy

    No puff, it's not just her congregation. They still say "for conduct unbecoming a christian" when df-ing in my kingdom hall.

    Also, they give talks the following week about "local needs". They do this when someone is on public reproof too. So exactly like you said, pretty much everyone in the congregation puts two and two together. By the way--to your orginal post about having your df'd sister over, what the hell business is it of theirs? I'm sorry, but issues of Df-ing, public, and private reproof, and Da-ing was a big reason I left. Hearing stuff like this kind of brings it all back, so good luck to you and your mom!

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