Well, well , well ... guess what ... JWs were at my door. We talked for over an hour. It has been about two years since I talked with a live JWs as they did their door-to-door work ... Yes, NBC Dateline came up near the end of the conversation ... I could not let them get away without injecting that topic ... and when they gave the opening, I rammed it in ...
First, has something happened to JWs these day? What a bunch of arrogant know-it-alls!!! Geezzz. Were we really that bad when we were JWs at the doors? Or has the Governing Body decided to create monsters in the last few years? God Almighty, Creator of Heaven and Earth, have mercy on my poor wretched soul! These JW people are nuts!!!
The lady opened up with asking me what I thought of all the trouble we see in the world today and if I think mankind can ever solve the problems. I said that I did not think that humans would ever fully solve their problems at least not judging from history of human actions. She then says, Since you agree that humans cannot solve their problems, then you must agree that we should look to Gods Kingdom to do that for us.
I said, Whoaaaaa Nelly!!! I did not say that humans cannot solve their problems, I simply stated that they likely would not do so judging from history. They could solve their problems, but humans do not always have the will to do so. She stood back, seemingly alarmed she then read a verse from 2 Timothy about the last days and then
I said, Mam, before you begin, I have problems with the Bible, with the very concepts that organized religions present, and I would have to start with the Adam and Eve theory before I could get into the rest of your theology. She again look alarmed, and then begin to try and prove to me that the Bible is Gods Word and gave the typical pat arguments about how Adam and Eve made a moral choice and that the sin and death passed on was their fault and not Gods she could not grasp the concept that God designed Adam and Eve and could have shielded their offspring from the effects of sin
She said that God would never do that as all children must bare the consequences of their parents acts and when I cited how Jesus was shielded in Marys womb, and therefore God could and would do that that to pass along sin and death to us just because Adam and Eve sinned seem wrong on Gods part and since I believe that God is basically good, I have to believe that the Bible is in error.
You would have thought that I have just asked her to worship Satan because I questioned the Bible. Then I pointed out how her Bible is basically built on what the Catholic Church determined was canonical and the King James revision and structure and that were I to ever look to a religion, I would have to study Catholicism she became very arrogant. She argued that the New World Translation is not based on the King James or what the Catholic Church did, and that the Watchtower Society used the oldest manuscripts and blah, blah, blah
I tried to tell her that I am not talking about their translating into modern English, but the fact that the determination of what should be in the Bible was made by the Catholic Church and all others have essentially followed this She said no, that the Watchtower Society would never use anything the Catholics did.
All Scripture is Inspired: She read this from 2 Tim and said that the Bible is inspired because it claims to be inspired. I asked her which scripture Paul meant he did not list any number of books or writings he just said, All Scripture and that could mean almost anything. She tried to argue otherwise
We went in circles with her rarely allowing me to finish a point or with her telling me things that I know are not historically correct for example we debated whether the early Christians were highly organized I pointed out that they were divided and disunited until they were organized and united during Constantines rule she said no, the early Christians were all united and went door-to-door preaching Gods Kingdom.
NBC Dateline: We eventually talked about the Catholic Church and pedophile priests. And I asked her if she saw the Dateline program regarding how JWs shield and hide pedophiles she said she did and was very open about it She went on with rhetoric about how JWs hate pedophiles and DF any they discover, and how protective the Watchtower is of the JW children, and the fine training they get on educating their children to avoid pedophiles, etc.
Sooooo.. I used Mormons as the whipping example to make my point about how religions all condemn pedophilia no one in their right mind supports that crime the problem is that in private confessions, whether with a Catholic Priest, or a Mormon Bishop, or JW Church leaders, pedophiles are often forgiven in private, and then they remain in the religion to the ignorance of the other members she went on again about how the JW Elders do everything openly and that ALL pedophiles are DFd so then, I got mean
Mam, you do not know what you are talking about: I had to get a little arrogant in return, but she was pissing me off by not letting me say anything. Mam, I continued, My daughter is married to a man whos parents of Jehovahs Witnesses. My son-in-laws dad was just convicted of pedophilia and his church Elders only announce that he has been privately reproved so the JW congregation is not aware of the sin, and the children are at risk and this fits with what NBC Dateline showed is going on with Jehovahs Witnesses in other parts of the country
So, before I could ever step foot in your church, I would have to be assured that your leaders had not only dealt with the pedophile, but had reported him to the police along with the parents of the victims and right now, aside from rhetoric, you give me nothing to assure me that is the case she then tried to defend that KW Elders do everything openly so I asked her if the Elders meet publicly with pedophile she said no, the Elders do and So I asked, Do ALL the Elders meet openly with the pedophile she said no, only a committee of three Elders meet and then I said that if that is the case, then it is a private meeting and you have no idea what happens and your church Elders could hear the sins of a pedophile and then forgive him if they feel he is repentant, and you would never know.
She then claims that pedophile are rare among the JWs! I went nuts!!! Rare! According to the Dateline program your leaders know of thousands of pedophiles in your religion, and they do nothing about it. At least the Catholic Church is admitting it and doing something to correct the problem. She argued that there were likely only a handful of pedophiles among all 6,000,000 JWs earth-wide. I smiled, and let it go
WHAT is your HOPE? Like a good JW, she tried to conclude with a question (She wanted to leave): I said that I am a Christian Deist that is I fundamentally believe in God, but I do not accept any revealed religion, except that I believe Jesus Christ is our best hope and my beliefs are modeled on Christ so, I hope that whatever God does do with me at the end of this life that is will be good and I will have eternal happiness.
She said that I was not sure in my hope that that I needed Gods Kingdom. I said that no one can be 100% sure of anything and my language is just more moderate and that I dont need or want some Kingdom government as defined by some human religion Jesus simple said that he is the Truth and that is enough for me
You dont have Hope in Gods Kingdom? another effort of hers to conclude with a question and she asked it like I had just rejected my only opportunity to accept Jehovah. I said, I am not rejecting Gods government if that is what he wants, for who am I to tell God he cant have some literal government? rather, I am rejecting the definition proposed and theorized by your church it is false
She then says that we cant put faith in any other Kingdom, because they all belong to Satan. I asked, how then, if all these Kingdoms belong to Satan, can the Apostle paul tell the Romans that Caesar (symbolic for all mens governments) is Gods minister? Does Jehovah use Satans, through his governments, as his minister? She then went off into relative subjection and then brought it all back to the entire theme of the Bible is built on the Kingdom of God to which I replied,
Then the entire scheme to booby-trap Adam and Eve to pass along sin and death seems like a cruel joke so as to then propose a Government to solve the problems problems we would not have if God had simply designed each human to stand alone in the first place with respect to sin freewill and if humans cannot make such choices, as she said because only God has the right then the whole choice in the Garden of Eden was not a choice but merely a contest between God and Satan and we are the unwitting pawns
But Gods Kingdom is the Universal Issue before us all! No, Gods Kingdom is NOT the universal before us all, I said, Because the vast majority of humans, except maybe a few JWs, have never had any concept that there is an issue, and because we find some level of government useful, we form governments as needed that if it were such an issue, it would be well known in all human history because a loving God would have to be fair
She finally concluded: You are hearing about Gods Kingdom now because we are at your door Lucky ME, what about the billions of other poor slobs in the last ten thousand years that have never had a JW at their door?
Sir, we have to go: So, I said, HAVE A NICE DAY!