JWs at My Door today!

by Amazing 16 Replies latest jw friends

  • nita6368
    nita6368

    None of them ever come to my house, I have been out since 1997 and have never got that yearly call to help bring me back into the fold..I guess they don't want me back. I did have an interesting discussion with two Methodist preachers, after I told them that I felt all organized religion was full of a bunch of self-righteous hypocrites trying to fleece the flock, they agreed with me that it would probably be awhile before I was ready to try attending a different church.....a long while.

    Just reading over the thoughtless memorized service "presentations" makes me so glad I am not there anymore. :)

  • Flip
    Flip
    What a bunch of arrogant know-it-alls!!! GeezzzThese JW people are nuts!!!

    Like most of us here a while ago, no doubt the Jehovahs Witnesses at the door were thinking the same of Amazings arguments. J

    Regardless, of what was said to whom and to what end, the facts are, the WTBTS got their cash for the publications the ladies tote day after day.

    In return for their monetary support, the JW ladies receive programmed comfort and the perception of stability within a controlling environment.

    Amazing?... well...I guess he got another chance to do some of the things he seems to be good at, having some goodhearted fun.

    Flip

    Edited by - Flip on 12 June 2002 17:16:55

  • orangefatcat
    orangefatcat

    Amazing Jim, I hope sincerely you are watching your blood pressure, especially since your resent heart attack. Those two JW's would cause my blood pressure to explode a few notches. How dense can they be. And yes I think too how on earth could I have been like that myself once upon a time. Your presentation of logic was excellent.

    It is quite interesting to see how many people in the WTBS have seen this Dateline programme and it has obviously caused a real stir in their mist.

    I wish a JW would show up at my door. But they all know where I live so there is no chance in hell they will show up.

    Well Amazing Jim, "take care of yourself and get well each and every day."

    All the best

    Orangefatcat

  • gumby
    gumby

    Since you agree that humans cannot solve their problems, then you must agree that we should look to Gods Kingdom to do that for us.

    Why do they assume that is the only other alternative people have to choose from?

    What if you were a muslim or budhist, or atheist, or agnostic?

    It's verbal trickery.....two choices....that's it.

    How your blood pressure dosen't go up at times like this baffles me. My heart beats like I just ran the mile when I begin to go into conversation with a dub.....when I get the lucky chance to do so.

  • TR
    TR

    Amazing,

    You were way too easy on her! Man, the ignorance in her comments are embarrasing.

    TR

    Edited by - TR on 12 June 2002 20:25:12

  • DanielHaase
    DanielHaase

    Ehhh poo on it all! You just got to nip that crap in the bud and stop it before it starts! Answer the door with a strap-on (regardless of your gender), katsup all in your hair, an IV in your arm with an active transfusion infusing, Slayer's "God Hates Us All" CD playing in the background ( or maybe Deicide), the CO's nude wife passed out on your couch, screaming "lick my prostate, bi**h!!!!!"

  • blondie
    blondie

    This is why the JWs don't believe that the Catholic Church is responsible. Disclaimer: Just reporting, not supporting.

    *** All Scriptures Inspired book pages 302-4

    Study Number 4-The Bible and Its Canon ***

    17 The Roman Catholic Church claims responsibility for the decision as to which books should be included in the Bible canon, and reference is made to the Council of Carthage (397 C.E.), where a catalog of books was formulated. The opposite is true, however, because the canon, including the list of books making up the Christian Greek Scriptures, was already settled by then, that is, not by the decree of any council, but by the direction of Gods holy spiritthe same spirit that inspired the writing of those books in the first place. The testimony of later noninspired catalogers is valuable only as an acknowledgment of the Bible canon, which Gods spirit had authorized.

    18

    The Evidence of Early Catalogs. A glance at the accompanying chart reveals that a number of fourth-century catalogs of the Christian Scriptures, dated prior to the above-mentioned council, agree exactly with our present canon, and some others omit only Revelation. Before the end of the second century, there is universal acceptance of the four Gospels, Acts, and 12 of the apostle Pauls letters. Only a few of the smaller writings were doubted in certain areas. Likely(ONE OF THOSE JW BUZZWORDS) this was so because such writings were limited in their initial circulation for one reason or another and thus took longer to become accepted as canonical.

    19

    One of the most interesting early catalogs is the fragment discovered by L. A. Muratori in the Ambrosian Library, Milan, Italy, and published by him in 1740. Though the beginning is missing, its reference to Luke as the third Gospel indicates that it first mentioned Matthew and Mark. The Muratorian Fragment, which is in Latin, dates to the latter part of the second century C.E. It is a most interesting document, as the following partial translation shows: "The third book of the Gospel is that according to Luke. Luke, the well-known physician, wrote it in his own name . . . The fourth book of the Gospel is that of John, one of the disciples. . . . And so to the faith of believers there is no discord, even although different selections are given from the facts in the individual books of the Gospels, because in all [of them] under the one guiding Spirit all the things relative to his nativity, passion, resurrection, conversation with his disciples, and his twofold advent, the first in the humiliation arising from contempt, which took place, and the second in the glory of kingly power, which is yet to come, have been declared. What marvel is it, then, if John adduces so consistently in his epistles these several things, saying in person: what we have seen with our eyes, and heard with our ears, and our hands have handled, those things we have written. For thus he professes to be not only an eyewitness but also a hearer and narrator of all the wonderful things of the Lord, in their order. Moreover, the acts of all the apostles are written in one book. Luke [so] comprised them for the most excellent Theophilus . . . Now the epistles of Paul, what they are, whence or for what reason they were sent, they themselves make clear to him who will understand. First of all he wrote at length to the Corinthians to prohibit the schism of heresy, then to the Galatians [against] circumcision, and to the Romans on the order of the Scriptures, intimating also that Christ is the chief matter in themeach of which it is necessary for us to discuss, seeing that the blessed Apostle Paul himself, following the example of his predecessor John, writes to no more than seven churches by name in the following order: to the Corinthians (first), to the Ephesians (second), to the Philippians (third), to the Colossians (fourth), to the Galatians (fifth), to the Thessalonians (sixth), to the Romans (seventh). But though he writes twice for the sake of correction to the Corinthians and the Thessalonians, that there is one church diffused throughout the whole earth is shown [?i.e., by this sevenfold writing]; and John also in the Apocalypse, though he writes to seven churches, yet speaks to all. But [he wrote] out of affection and love one to Philemon, and one to Titus, and two to Timothy; [and these] are held sacred in the honorable esteem of the Church. . . . Further, an epistle of Jude and two bearing the name of John are counted . . . We receive the apocalypses of John and Peter only, which [latter] some of us do not wish to be read in church."The New Schaff-Herzog Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge, 1956, Vol. VIII, page 56.

    20

    It is noted that toward the end of the Muratorian Fragment, mention is made of just two epistles of John. However, on this point the above-mentioned encyclopedia, page 55, notes that these two epistles of John "can only be the second and third, whose writer calls himself merely the elder. Having already treated the first, though only incidentally, in connection with the Fourth Gospel, and there declared his unquestioning belief in its Johannine origin, the author felt able here to confine himself to the two smaller letters." As to the apparent absence of any mention of Peters first epistle, this source continues: "The most probable hypothesis is that of the loss of a few words, perhaps a line, in which I Peter and the Apocalypse of John were named as received." Therefore, from the standpoint of the Muratorian Fragment, this encyclopedia, on page 56, concludes: "The New Testament is regarded as definitely made up of the four Gospels, the Acts, thirteen epistles of Paul, the Apocalypse of John, probably three epistles of his, Jude, and probably I Peter, while the opposition to another of Peters writings was not yet silenced."

    21

    Origen, about the year 230 C.E., accepted among the inspired Scriptures the books of Hebrews and James, both missing from the Muratorian Fragment. While he indicates that some doubted their canonical quality, this also shows that by this time, the canonicity of most of the Greek Scriptures was accepted, only a few doubting some of the less well-known epistles. Later, Athanasius, Jerome, and Augustine acknowledged the conclusions of earlier lists by defining as the canon the same 27 books that we now have.

    22

    The majority of the catalogs in the chart are specific lists showing which books were accepted as canonical. Those of Irenaeus, Clement of Alexandria, Tertullian, and Origen are completed from the quotations they made, which reveal how they regarded the writings referred to. These are further supplemented from the records of the early historian Eusebius. However, the fact that these writers do not mention certain canonical writings does not argue against their canonicity. It is just that they did not happen to refer to them in their writings either by choice or because of the subjects under discussion. But why do we not find exact lists earlier than the Muratorian Fragment?

    23

    It was not until critics like Marcion came along in the middle of the second century C.E. that an issue arose as to which books Christians should accept. Marcion constructed his own canon to suit his doctrines, taking only certain of the apostle Pauls letters and an expurgated form of the Gospel of Luke. This, together with the mass of apocryphal literature by then spreading throughout the world, was what led to statements by catalogers as to which books they accepted as canonical.

    *** Insight Book Volume 1 page 409 Canon ***


    By the end of the second century there was no question but that the canon of the Christian Greek Scriptures was closed, and we find such ones as Irenaeus, Clement of Alexandria, and Tertullian recognizing the writings comprising the Christian Scriptures as carrying authority equal to that of the Hebrew Scriptures. Irenaeus in appealing to the Scriptures makes no fewer than 200 quotations from Pauls letters. Clement says he will answer his opponents by "the Scriptures which we believe are valid from their omnipotent authority," that is, "by the law and the prophets, and besides by the blessed Gospel."The Ante-Nicene Fathers, Vol. II, p. 409, "The Stromata, or Miscellanies."

    The canonicity of certain individual books of the Christian Greek Scriptures has been disputed by some, but the arguments against them are very weak. For critics to reject, for example, the book of Hebrews simply because it does not bear Pauls name and because it differs slightly in style from his other letters is shallow reasoning. B. F. Westcott observed that "the canonical authority of the Epistle is independent of its Pauline authorship." (The Epistle to the Hebrews, 1892, p. lxxi) Objection on the grounds of unnamed writership is far outweighed by the presence of Hebrews in the Chester Beatty Papyrus No. 2 (P

    46 ) (dated within 150 years of Pauls death), which contains it along with eight other letters of Paul.

    Sometimes the canonicity of small books such as James, Jude, Second and Third John, and Second Peter is questioned on the grounds that these books are quoted very little by early writers. However, they make up all together only one thirty-sixth of the Christian Greek Scriptures and were therefore less likely to be referred to. In this connection it may be observed that Second Peter is quoted by Irenaeus as bearing the same evidence of canonicity as the rest of the Greek Scriptures. The same is true of Second John. (The Ante-Nicene Fathers, Vol. I, pp. 551, 557, 341, 443, "Irenaeus Against Heresies") Revelation, also rejected by some, was attested to by many early commentators, including Papias, Justin Martyr, Melito, and Irenaeus.

    The real test of canonicity, however, is not how many times or by what nonapostolic writer a certain book has been quoted. The contents of the book itself must give evidence that it is a product of holy spirit. Consequently, it cannot contain superstitions or demonism, nor can it encourage creature worship. It must be in total harmony and complete unity with the rest of the Bible, thus supporting the authorship of Jehovah God. Each book must conform to the divine "pattern of healthful words" and be in harmony with the teachings and activities of Christ Jesus. (2Ti 1:13; 1Co 4:17) The apostles clearly had divine accreditation and they spoke in attestation of such other writers as Luke and James, the half brother of Jesus. By holy spirit the apostles had "discernment of inspired utterances" as to whether such were of God or not. (1Co 12:4, 10) With the death of John, the last apostle, this reliable chain of divinely inspired men came to an end, and so with the Revelation, Johns Gospel, and his epistles, the Bible canon closed.

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