Speech Counsel Point - TIMING

by Mister Biggs 29 Replies latest jw experiences

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  Mister Biggs

  Theocratic Ministry School (TMS) pet peeve of mine is found below.

  Please feel free to add any that you find as annoying and hypocritical as mine...

  Last night, Brother Gramaton* delivered the # 2 talk (Bible Reading). He received all of this "wonderful, upbuilding" counsel from Brother Hank*, the School Overseer. Ohhhh, however, Brother Hank threw a "BUT" in his counsel to Brother Gramaton: "But, your timing was 5 minutes and 17 seconds so we are going to have to ask you to work on that again."

  Pet Peeve #1): Should counsel be made public? In school, did your teacher (or instructor) make public your grades? How does little Timmy or Suzie feel about getting told in front of the whole audience that his or her talk was a failure?

  Continuing...

  The "2nd half of the meeting (Service Meeting)" began and Brother Hank was assigned the last part (slated to be 20 minutes in length). Brother Hank wound up using 30 minutes for his 20 minute part.

  Pet Peeve #2): How is Brother Hank going to counsel someone on 'Timing' for going 17 seconds over and then turn around and go 10 minutes over his alotted time?!? Also, what is the big deal with 'Timing' if Elders and Ministerial Servants almost ALWAYS go overtime on their Public Talks, Service Meeting parts, and the conducting of the Watchtower Study?

  *names have been changed
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  SpiceItUp

  Just another hypocritical standard they live by.

  Spice
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  Pathofthorns

  I have noticed alot of sisters (and alot of elder's wives) have withdrawn from the school because it is too stressful for them. I don't think alot of people cared for public counsel.

  I think timing is important for meetings. Nothing worse than parts going overtime. But unfortunately if you hold more rank in this organization, the less likely you are to be called on it and the more likely you are to go over by several minutes. I think going overtime is the height of disrespect to your audience.

  I think the worst parts for going overtime were the concluding talks at conventions and those damn long prayers as well as the final talk of the service meeting.

  Path
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  Mister Biggs

  Spice... I agree.

  Path...Going overtime is DEFINITELY a disrespect to the audience! And I couldn't agree more that the worst ones are the ones that occur during Conventions and Thursday nights. And the lonnnnnnnnnng prayers by certain brothers who enjoy hearing themselves speak. Ugh!
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  Gopher

  Biggs,

  I agree with your point that Bro. Hank ought to practice what he preaches for timing.

  One thing that going overtime (not by a second or two, but substantially) demonstrates is a lack of preparation, or that a person is speaking from a manuscript rather than from an outline, and therefore lacks flexibility to take out minor sub-points.

  To me the worst timed meeting of all was the morning "meeting for field service". Too many conductors would drag on and on, and it would make the pioneers steaming mad because they just wanted to get the heck out of that meeting and get their time running!

  As far as being publicly counselled goes, I think it is beneficial that the good points of a speaker's presentation be noted for the audience's benefit. But I do remember several times when the Theocratic Ministry School Overseer "threw his weight around" a bit while counselling someone he wasn't particularly close to. Not loving!

  In retrospect, despite its flaws, I would say that the Ministry School was one of the rare positive things that came out of my JW experience (outweighed by many other traumas imposed by trying to be a JW). It is relatively easy for me to speak in front of any group, even without preparation.
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  Mister Biggs

  Gopher... I do not disagree with you when you say that the school is beneficial in helping one speak before groups of people. However, was it the continued counsel that you received OR was it the repetition of delivering talks that has made it easier for you to speak in front of any group?

  For me, the latter holds true. Also, give the praise in public and give the counsel in private. OR...Let the audience counsel the Elders and Servants who go over on their parts! LOL!

  Edited by - Mister Biggs on 21 June 2002 9:57:21
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  Gopher

  Let the audience counsel the Elders and Servants who go over on their parts!

  Let them bring sticks to bang on their chairs, or rotten tomatoes to throw! Surely that would be incentive enough to get those self-admiring time hogs off the dang stage!!!

  was it the continued counsel that you received OR was it the repetition of delivering talks that has made it easier for you to speak in front of any group?

  To be honest, Biggs, it was the repetition, and the opportunity to get larger assignments. I was usually a much harsher critic of my own speaking than the school overseer was. I usually could predict what he might way.

  --Goph
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  SYN

  Nice post, let's give you a "G" for "Good"!!!!!!
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  Oroborus21

  Howdy,

  Have to totally disagree with you here.

  First, when it comes to "speech" classes which is essentially what the MS is, whether it is the MS or if it were at school, it is entirely useful to hear the critique publicly.

  The other students in the class just heard the talk, if they then hear the counsel, points that were good and things needing improvement they can then take the whole experience and learn from it for themselves. Thus everyone is instructed not just the student-speaker.

  Of course, this situation is most beneficial when the counsel or critique is of a substantial nature and of good quality itself. And yes I admit sometimes the School conductor/evaluator can take this role a little too seriously and a few have even seemed to enjoy the "power" of the situation--but for the most part the bros with this responsibility are reasonable.

  I do agree with you that an excess of time of 15 seconds seems like nit-picking, especially since most brothers would give at least a 30 second flexibility either way, short or overtime, on this counsel point.

  I disagree though with your other criticism of him running over time on his talk. The School is specifically to work on particular speech counsel points and to improve as a speaker (now with the change in the school effective 2003, really the emphasis is on becoming a better "minister" not merely speaker).

  The point the student was specifically supposed to be concentrating on was timing, thus it is fair and appropriate to judge him on that point.

  The latter talk of the brother was entirely different-part of the Service Meeting- and although the bros are encouraged to keep their talks to the specified time alloted what is MORE important is the content of the information. Entirely different than the ministry school.

  --Eduardo
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  NeonMadman

  The latter talk of the brother was entirely different-part of the Service Meeting- and although the bros are encouraged to keep their talks to the specified time alloted what is MORE important is the content of the information.

  Retch. Gag. Puke.

  (Choking on the fine spiritual information/"food" offered at the Service Meeting...)