Okay....whose selling and giving the drugz to the latest newbie posters?
D8TA
Secret WTS Social Agenda
by spaz 53 Replies latest jw friends
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larc
D8TA, Spaz is a thief. He didn't right this. He lifted it from another dopper.
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spaz
It seems as though some of you foul-mouths, bulldykes and momma's boys are incapable of lateral thinking. I don't know what a dopper is. I did write similarly on another thread.
The WTS corporate hegemony does not consist of a bunch of dildo brains as some of you would have others believe. They have an agenda and policies which they tightly follow. Nearly everything decided upon in the culture is by design for a specific result. Every second jw that I knew felt that there was something amiss in the culture.
I have yet to meet an xjw or jw that is humble enough to even consider the possibility that the culture just might be one of design and not accidental as though a bunch of dolts were running the show. The culture is particularly oppressive, orwellian. George Orwell's socialist world was one of design framed against Machiavellian principles: So too is the watchtower world. The bumbler/accidental theory is an inadequate explanation for that which is patently a culture reeking of design. Give me an alternative explanation for it.
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chasson
hey spaz,
Could you be more precise ? I think that you will start another conspiracy's theory the next post you will write ?
Don't you ?
Bye
Charles
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Morgaine
Wow. Im going to take a huge risk with this.I'm going to be rather bold and I am not certainly as eloquent as you, sir. However, I will pose a few questions for you maybe to flesh out for us or to even privately consider yourself Forgive me where I lack punctuation and where I get redundant because its very late for me here...And well, you are religously based ( i have seen this a bit belatedly) but i have not the time to rewrite this but...perhaps you can still consider some of these.
I think what your describing is not something unique to the JW or the WTS . Certainly, Machiavellis and Sun-Tzu alike knew the benefit in manipulating a belief system (you touched on this). But this does not mean that all changes in a belief system are unhealthy and the product of larger motives". Is a certain degree of evolution natural? What are your reasons for believing in a segregated humankind and feeling that patriarchy is the obvious only alternative? Is this because you have always believed it? Do you feel this must be true simply because to your knowledge it always has been? Have you also asked that perhaps men have globally decided to wish to be less the provider - Women can easily in this day and age be providers and are even more adept( in some cases) but what if no loss of male power has really occurred just a change where women actually do more work and men are becoming more the "Male lion in the pride" ?Whether you approach this platform from hunters and gatherers or from creationism - you can not over look the power of industrialization and certain evolutionary qualities like medicine and machines(and your not). Are these products of evil or simply of progress? Can this happen without ulterior motives ? Have you also over looked that while women wear short hair and long hair that the preferred female has extreemly large breasts the size of a nursing female? Have you considered that while men are removing bodily hair that women have been removing bodily hair for centuries and this is western and unnatural? have you over looked that some men may find a beard and body hair too hot to wear and it might be preference? Is preference allowable in partriarchy? Have you asked yourself if there are any ways that a level of unity could be reached from the chaos of evident change?Change being a part of the human experience always involves a bit of chaos in any dilima Have you considered that we are in the chaos of change thus maybe some of the distortion that you are seeing socially - certainly the world is more unitied globally - is the new world order truly orwellian is it possible .. and if it is orwellian - how does role reversal become a nessecary and main element of any signifigance? . Are you sure your not approaching your supposition from entirely too narrow of a view point with an answer already in mind ? and Have you asked yourself this "if indeed Matriarchy has never existed (subjective not empirical)- does that mean it is invalid or harmful? " have you also considered that an equality or more of a unity might be reached (feminism being more for the rights of women but not the takeover of imo) that better relationships and understanding might be gained from dropping such stigmas as "girls are over emotional and boys don't cry"? That we might actually be a bit better rounded as human beings? Have you asked your self whether or not your observation on men and women is based solely on stereotype that is a left over unchallenged belief from your upbringing? Is it possible to judge and live purely on personality difference and not gender differences? Have you consulted/ conducted studies on liberal versus purely patriarchal couples ? have you not found success in the equal amount of respect brought to a more liberal union? Are men incapable of nurturing? What is the true harm of role-reversal should this occur ? How does it encourage homosexuality and if you feel it does then you must be approaching it from a religious bias because it is a. genetic or b. a choice and either way you view it your obvious disdain suggests an intolerance. Are you aware of the fact that strictly religious households with patriarchal architecture has been proven to be more prone to child molestation than any other structure? How do you account for this? How do you also account for males being the more likely of the sexes to commit such acts of agression against children in the patriarchal structure? Are you then suggesting that sex crimes against children did not always exist? What is your reasoning for this? Have you considered that divorce via just killing your wife , giving her back to her parents, etc has always existed maybe even "changed slightly witht he definiton still being the same" King Henery the 8th. Have mistresses not always existed in time? Do you feel that is acceptable to the healthy patriarchal system? If so what is the definiton of truth and honor and a lie? Have you examined double standards? Has it occured to you that your religious platform might have been interpreted wrong by whomever taught you?. That your belief of what we will call fa *perfectly valid and holy material*, could be sorely misinterpreted by you? That you could have made some hasty generalizations based on a bi-product of your own personal fears?
i'm sure there are more questions but Im too tired to present more.
You are certainly and educated person and I will just take the risk of insulting you further by saying this:
I wonder if if your not getting caught up in a few fallacies. Do you feel confident that you have covered all of these terms in the creating of your argument? These are basic as you are well aware, however a check list can be a good thing ...
1.Fallacy 2. Small sample
3. Unrepresentive sample
4.Slanted Study
5.Bad Base Line
6.Suppressed Evidence
7. Gamblers' Fallacies
8. Fallacy of Comparison
9. Questionable Analogy
10.Questionable Classification
11.Questionable Cause
12. confusing correlations with causes
13. Post Hoc
14. Causal Oversimplification
15. Slippery Slope
16.domino Theory
(* note Unwarrented Assumptions)
18. False Delima
19. Only game in town
20. Begging the Question
21. Invincible Ignorance
22. Arguing from Ignorancepeace,
morgaine.
Edited by - morgaine on 26 June 2002 7:30:33
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SYN
Like the (socialist) feminists the females perpetuate an enfeebled patriarchy(matriarchy is a myth).
Um, OK, evidently somebody hasn't read all my posts about the blatant, Tower-advocated chauvinism that happens constantly in every Dub household and Kingdom Hall. Trust me, women are losers in Dubland, not men. According to the Tower, a woman should be willing to do anything for her husband, even sitting in a puddle if he says so. There are no female leadership positions. This "women ruling behind the scenes" thing is utter claptrap, there is no such thing in the Congregations. Believe me, I know this stuff, I was a Dub for over a decade, and I know what I saw. You need to check out a few Kingdom Halls in your area to see exactly what I'm talking about. For instance, here's a hypothetical situation - there's a 90 year-old mature Pioneer sister, a group of other younger sisters, and of course, a new-born boy. Guess what? The 90-year old Pioneer sister has to wear a dishcloth on her head in order to show "respect" for the boy's little winky.
GET IT?
Have you ever thought that maybe the reason some men don't grow beards or any facial hair is because it can feel like sandpaper against a woman's skin (very unpleasant, especially in sensitive regions of the female body)?
How does making every man in the KH wear a suit "feminise" them? Sisters aren't allowed to wear suits. This is clear discrimination and an infringement of freedom of speech in the Halls, and it's QUITE obvious.
Why does the Tower's literature say that a woman who fears for her life and doesn't scream is sinning during rape? That she is fornicating?
If you ever find any feminism in the Tower, please alert me to this fact. And it will not be any time soon. The woman are the ones who are being hurt the most by this destructive Cult.
Please get your story straight. I AM flaming you, but just remember I don't have anything against you as such, it's just that these views of yours are quite grating to someone like me who has experienced firsthand the degradation and all-round humiliation of helplessly enslaved women in the BORG!
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Morgaine
nt
Edited by - morgaine on 26 June 2002 7:38:54
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zenpunk
Oh please! The WTS reminded me more of the US 1950s male/female stereotypes! The are very few female breadwinners in the WTS - unless housecleaning brings in a lot more money than it did 10 years ago.
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Francois
Some thoughts for women from a man who has had enough.
Learn to work the toilet seat. If it's up, put it down. Quit yer bitchin'
Sunday is for sports. Leave it be.
It's not a good idea for us to take the quiz together. No, it doesn't matter what quiz.
Don't ask us what we're thinking unless you want to discuss the stages of the tide, the possibility of a new outboard engine, or navel lint. We aren't always thinking of you.
If you want sympathy, talk to your girlfriends. That's what they are for.
Rotate your tires.
A headache that lasts for 18 months is not normal. See a doctor.
Men only see 16 colors; peach is not one of them. A peach is a fruit, not a color. Decorate the house yourself.
It doesn't matter what you're wearing. Honest. Anything will do.
What makes you think that we, who have three pair of shoes max, can tell you which pair of shoes out of 30 pair, will look best with what you're wearing?
Let's get something straight: we do not read minds. Hints do not work. Strong hints do not work. Really obvious hints do not work. JUST SAY IT.
If you say nothing's wrong, we'll believe you. Don't get all bent out of shape when we don't react like you expect when you say "nothing's wrong."
No, we don't know what day it is. We never will. That's what calendars are for. Use them.
There are many, many more thoughts like this. I just wanted to give you a hint that things like this DO exist, even if it DOES do damage to your sense of perfection.
Francois
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spaz
Some of you guys must be of the rank and file socialist/liberal persuasion, bumbling through life with rose-coloured glasses, bright-eyed and bushy-tailed eagerly absorbing all the garbage spewed out by the media propaganda machinery. How are you any different from when you were in the watchtower world? These were the naive class at the start of WWII who adamantly refused to believe that a human being could committ atrocities we know today as the holocaust. I suppose that you also believe that the recent Enron and World corporate collapses were random acts of chaos, accidents and not the result of an agenda framed in private.
I suppose you folk think the socialist/liberal feminists are out for equality and not female superiority? Think again! Read some of the esoteric literature of Brownmiller et.al. if you're in doubt. I suppose you think Freidan and Steinem weren't Marxist Jews pressing a socialist agenda? The evolutionary-trained scientists promote the socialist theories of chaos when everything in the universe reeks of design. Everything in nature and nearly everything man does is by design.
Likewise, nearly everything the WTS hegemony has done is by design for a clandestine agenda. You don't have to believe it; you can "do the ostrich" and put your head in the ground-- put on your rose-cloured glasses and go hopping around life blindly oblivious to the designs of others who have plans of pain for you. You prefer to be decieved? Is that because you've hopped right out of the fat in the watchtower world into the fire of the secular world? Why? Is it because you were conditoned not to think 'outside of the box'. What I'm telling you about the WTS sounds bizarre only because you can't move vertically, horizontally or laterally in your thinking. And that's okay by me too. The evidence, of course, exists and I recommend you ignore it.