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erasescars

I am not, nor ever have been, a Witness. I have a VERY dear friend who is a former (actually still is technically, as I understand it) Witness and who is trying to adjust to existence in the "world." I am here on this site to better understand the hell she has been subjected to all her life and the hell she is and will still go through on her journey. It is bad enough she experienced the brainwashing of the Witnesses as well as all the guilt and threats to her laid on her....she also was subjected to severe abuse at home by her parents. She means the world to me and I want to support and comfort her anyway I can.

I just want to understand a few terms better that I see used frequently. She explained that "cong" was the congregation, and the difference between "disassociation" and "disfellowship", but I want to understand what "borg" and "dubs" mean and their derivation. I am assuming that Witnesses=W's=dubs....is that correct? I do not know what "borg" means.

Here is her very good explanation, but I am an anal retentive engineer and want to be sure I understand the "borg" term she wasn't sure about. Here is what she told to me:

The term DUBS is a funny way to say JW- W's.
Borg- I am guessing people say organization- then say ORG- then someone made
a joke to BORG- but it does fit- and makes me laugh. Remember- I am just
new on the site too- so alot is new to me! :-)
Cong- means congregation- local congregation.
Disassociated- that is when you write a letter and say to remove your
membership- and noone contact you. They then cannot talk to you- because
you don't want them to- it is a BIG insult to them- and they would NOT talk
to you- it would be like defecting or something.
Disfellowshipped is when the congregation tells everyone you are
disfellowshipped- so they know you did something sinful & were NOT sorry- so
they are not allowed to talk to you.
They are both equal in terms of how people can deal with you- either label &
they can't talk to you or socialize or deal with you- it just depends- do
you want to be kicked out, or pull out? Same difference- just depends how
you want to handle it. Somehow they feel if you're disfellowshipped that
you might come around & repent- but to be disassociated- that is telling
them you want NO part of them or the religion- so they pretty much consider
you a lost cause.

Thanks to any veteran who knows the answer. This is a VERY fascinating and helpful site.

professor

"Resistance Is Futile"

We are the Borg.
Lower your shields, and surrender your ship.
We will add your biological and technological
distinctiveness to our own.
Your culture will adapt to service ours.
Resistance is futile.

Freedom is irrelevant;
Self-determination is irrelevant;
You must comply.

Strength is irrelevant.
Death is irrelevant.
Your defensive capabilities
are unable to withstand us.

Resistance is futile.
Your life, as it has been, is over.
From this time forward, you will service us.

Edited by - professor on 1 July 2002 0:41:47

SpiderMonkey

erasescars, I'm not a "veteran" but I'll help you where I can:

You're right about "dub"; it's just a derivative of "j DoUBle - u"... The "Borg" were a race of cyborgs in Star Trek the next generation. Their typical line was "You will be assimilated; resistance is futile." They were a sort of hive-mind race, which fits the JWs in a whistling-past-the-graveyard sort of way. It's a very fitting joke, but not too funny when you consider that individual JW human beings are the ones acting like robots, and that this is what gives rise to the expression (that plus the fact that it rhymes with "org," short for The Organization, which is synonymous with The Watchtower Bible & Tract Society).

With disfellowshipping & disassociating, you're right on the money. DF means you're misguided for now but maybe you'll come around. DA is tantamount to the ultimate sin. But there's no difference in how the cong (yes, congregation) is supposed to treat you - as if dead, completely shunned.

Hope this helps.

SpiderMonkey

[what the Prof said!]

I think those are direct quotes from the TV show; that's why the watchtower is termed the "Borg"... because that's the attitude they come across with

larc

Hey professor, What was that about? I didn't get it? Erasescars, you're correct on the definitions. If you have questions on how to talk to your friend, just ask. From what you have said, I would just let her talk when she needs to and be suportive, and loving. You may suggest she visit here and read other's stories. She will find quickly that she is not alone and not the only one to experience these kinds of things. Welcome to the board.

professor

Larc,

This is the creed of the Borg. Don't you watch Star-Trek?

Edited by - professor on 1 July 2002 2:42:11

Lost Diamond

Erasescars,

I'm speaking from experience....whatever you do, do not be pushy, negative or argumentive. You sound like you are very supportive....she definitely needs that now, but she needs to separate from the JW's on her own speed. By your listening and being there for her will help by giving her the strength she'll need to decide what she needs to do. Be kind and understanding.

When you separate from a familiar way of life, although abusive, it's like a part of you has died.....she'll need the time to mourn. It is also very, very frightening! She has trusted the organization for so long, to find out it's not what she was led to believe....the rug has been pulled from underneath her. It's like the wind being knocked out of you.

You may tactfully suggest she seek counseling for her abusive upbringing. This along with her brainwashing by the JW organization is a lot to deal with on her own. Let her know you're there for her, and show her that life and the world is not a scary place.

SPAZnik

erasescars....welcome to the site...this is nice that you are attempting to support your friend this way.

I too have a friend that wanted to read this site in an attempt to better understand me and what i've been through.....i'm not ready for her to do that though...i still need the site as a place i can "safely" vent and express freely...without feeling i have to constantly explain every last nuance of what i'm experiencing/expressing. i told her i'd feel like she was sitting in on my "therapy" sessions. she respected that (to my knowledge) and doesn't follow me around on here.

Everyone is different though and at varying stages of "healing". It's great that you are being such a support to someone and seeking to understand a complex situation. You sound heads up. Again, welcome!

SPAZ

Francois

Lost is right on the money with the suggestion that your friend seek counseling. There is actually a specific type of therapy used for people coming out of a mind-control cult of any type.

Since the Witnesses spend years pounding it into your head that you are incompetent to make your own decisions and that independent thinking leads to disaster, your friend likely has a very tentative approach to making any kind of descision or move.

It's a lot like learning to walk again after a serious accident involving your spine or legs. You're just not accustomed to using those muscles and have a tendency to fall down - go boom. Let her. Then help her up.

Patience - as my friends above have said. Lots of patience. You're essentially dealing with an abused person. And usually, a person is frozen emotionally at the age at which the abuse began, so you're dealing with an abused little girl. So you might want to consider that.

Suggest you get a copy of Susan Forward's excellent book on interpersonal abuse, "Men Who Hate Women & the Women Who Love Them." Even though it's about the effect of living with an abusive husband, its principles still apply. It's amazing how much like an absusive husband the Borg acts toward its members, especially the women. The Borg apparently regards women as an interesting form of wild life - and treats them as such.

Welcome. Glad to have you. Hope you'll find it helpful.

Francois

erasescars

Thank you to all who posted these excellent replies. This is truly an amazingly supportive group.

SPAZnik:

Your reply below rang a particular bell for me. My friend has been reading this site voraciously. My journey with her started in earnest some time ago when we finally got around to discussing her religion after months of avoiding it. I am SO glad she found this site. She gave me the site and told me to check it out. After I did she mentioned that she started to post one time and was inhibited because she knew I might see it and read it wrong. I DON'T want that and told her I would saty away from the site. Then she said no....read it because it would help me undersatnd JW's and her better. But I am still hestiatnt to go on and don't often, but when I do I almost feel like I am intruding. I want to help and be supportive, but can't like I would like for several reasons that I won't go into here. I help as I can and when she will let me. But I am very nervous about being here sometimes. When she asks if I have checked the site out I don't know whether to be there regularly and say yes, or to stay away so I can honestly say no.

Since you have that exact problem with your friend.....any additional thoughts?

"I too have a friend that wanted to
read this site in an attempt to better understand me and what i've been through.....i'm not ready for her to do that though...i still need the site
as a place i can "safely" vent and express freely...without feeling i have to constantly explain every last nuance of what i'm
experiencing/expressing. i told her i'd feel like she was sitting in on my "therapy" sessions. she respected that (to my knowledge) and
doesn't follow me around on here.Everyone is different though and at varying stages of "healing". It's great that you are being such a support
to someone and seeking to understand a complex situation. You sound heads up."

Thx again,
erase scars

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"Resistance Is Futile"

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