by IslandWoman 79 Replies latest jw friends
wow!........island woman............ you say........."i'm afraid"............hmmmmm,,,,,,,,, i don't think that's true..
exactly what do you think i am afraid of???............................should i be afraid of something right now???
so far i see expert expet expert side-stepping.............
Crawdad,
expertside-stepping.............
Absolutely. That is my job.
IW
i thought it was!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!....................... you tell lies..........to promote truth, right????.................and you side step off of the issue of "how come you don't have "pull".
Crawdad,
I do not tell lies. Now when a man wants to die that is his own business. But, I do not tell lies.
IW
wow!!!!!!!!.......... island woman..............."when a man want's to die".....................yup, that's his own business.............. again........expert side-stepping..................... ummmmm......... weren't we talking about "pull"?
Not that anyone is going to hear me over all the yelling and screaming going on......but, here is my two cents......
There ARE nice dubs.......my dad is a nice dub. He is kind, generous, loving.....I see him and my heart melts. What is unfortunate is that he is not in control of his life or his mind. When I see him (the little I have) I see the hurt in his eyes. I see the fear of compromising a faith if he talks to his daughter. I see a man that is being promised so much for such large sacrifices now......and it saddens and enrages me to know this. It makes me sick to my stomach to see such an intelligent, grown, wonderful man so delussioned and blindly following MEN....simple MEN.
I don't agree w/namecalling, but please.....look beyond the actual words and see the pain and emotional turmoil that the dubs have caused and try to understand. A lot of lives were ruined and left for "dead".....for that simple fact, I will not stand behind or stand up for a destructive, powerful man made organization as the Jehovah's Witnesses.
IW,
: Tell us. How long were you a JW?
Twenty four years, of which 18 were served as a child with no choice. Six years was my choice, with the last two years of awareness and awakening. I left a full three years before 1975 and 1975 was all we talked about and we all believed that WAS the end. That's how disgusted I was.
: How long were you out?
Thirty years.
: What responsibilities did you carry?
Full-time pioneer, MS, Ministry school conductor, book study conductor, traveling public speaker, had parts on assemblies. I also bore the "responsibility" of receiving a felony conviction and sentencing for refusing alternative military service. That cost me two precious years of my young life for a policy that was bullshit then, but wasn't changed for another fifteen years.
: What year did you stop attending meetings?
1972.
Frenchy,
: **"You can lead a dub to truth, but you can't make him think." - Farkel 3:19**
: Exactly what is it that you would lead them to?
A point where they will have full knowledge of the history and actual doctrines and practices of their religion. After that, they are on their own.
Farkel
Edited by - Farkel on 3 July 2002 8:58:48
Like scootergirl said, enough name-calling, back to the topic...
We've had this thread before. Yes the GB sets the 'rules' 'policy' or whatever you want to call it. The 'average' JW doesn't have to follow them, but, he/she knows that if they don't their lives will be miserable, since the emotional and social blackmail is looming large over their heads. Follow the rules or else - loose your family, friends, perhaps job, entire way of life - not to mention the neat little mental image package of what the world is ...
Look at it another way - if someone kidnaps your family and says you must kill a person or he'll kill your family - what do you do? If you go ahead and kill the person to secure the release of your family does that make you guilty or not guilty of murder? Is the murder 'better' since you had noble reasons for it?
Same thing here. Does following the GB policy of killing your child (refuse blood), emotionally killing friends/family (DF policy) even to the point of being drivin to kill themselves, etc justified by the fact that your comfortable little world would be brought down if you didn't? Does it make your actions less 'evil'?
Yes the average JW is a 'nice' person just trying to get through life, but there is no denying the facts that JWs will turn on each other in a heartbeat, shun at the snap of a finger, kill refusing blood, and emotionally blackmail, among other things.
My .01c
You show me some jig and I will show you some pull. The problem is you have not as yet shown any.
What the hell are these people talking about? Fishing?
D8TA, you of all people should know that swearing at Witnesses and Witness-sympathizers (not sure which category IW falls into ) just makes them feel vindicated! They call it "Persecution" and it PROVES that they're on God's side! Sheesh, they think they're waging Theocratic Warfare, even! Sometimes one just has to know when to let it go....sigh....
Sadly, it's been my experience that virtually ALL JWs by the very dint of supporting the so-called "doctrine" generated by the GB using the technique of pulling Scriptures out of a hat and calling it New Light are guilty of atrocities. For instance, parents who deny their children blood could very well be murderers. Elders who cover up child molestation could very well be abusers. R&F Dubs who shun women raped and then DFd for fornication could very well be assholes!
But, where does one lay the blame?
The problem with a lot of Witnesses is that they don't have a clue about what's REALLY cracking up at the top levels of the Society - all they really know is a couple of decades worth of literature, so their view of the Society is an idealized, fantasy one - they don't know the REAL history of the Tower. They don't know that God is in the Pleiedes and that Aluminium can kill you, see! They DO believe and have the right motivations. BUT that still doesn't excuse them from hurting others in their families and in the KH to uphold the doctrines forced onto them by the GB. A parent who denies their child blood is still a parent who denies their child blood, no matter WHICH way you look at it! The cookie only crumbles in exactly one fashion in that specific case! The same goes for Elders who follow the orders of the GB to cover up molestation in the Congregations. Theirs is a portion of the blame.
Obviously, this is a tough issue - my personal feeling is that a Witness with good intentions only really becomes guilty once they start HURTING others - be it by neglecting to put perverts behind bars, or shunning rape victims, or whatever! When people start to get hurt and killed by the "doctrine" enforced by the GB, then I think everyone shares part of the blame. Of course, the lion's share of the blame lays on the shoulders of the GB - they are the ones we should really be going after.
Naturally, they are also the hardest Dubs to get to of all.
Edited to add the quote attribute to the top line of text...
Edited by - SYN on 3 July 2002 15:40:32
I would like to point out one thing to the Farkels and the D8TAS of the world (hugs to you both by the way--and preparing to duck)
This last year, Watchtower reported zero or negative growth in 75 countries.
In the last couple of decades, Watchtower has had to lower their standards for Bethelites, for pioneering, even initiate a 15 minute rule for publishers. Four and five congregations are crowded into one Kingdom Hall sometimes because their Halls are being sold out from under them for money. The numbers of partakers are going UP and not DOWN.
Why? BECAUSE JW'S AREN'T TAKING THE GB CRAP ANYMORE. JW's ARE voting with their wallets, they ARE voting with their feet. Inch by painful inch, family by family, country by country, formerly 'brain dead' JW's are slowly taking back their families, and their lives, as evidenced by Lawrence Hughes' battle in Canada. There are many many Lawrence Hughes's in the world, and they don't all have the luxury of the media coverage. Their battle is a silent and loney one----yet they are heroes none the less.
Guys, give the JW's a break and give them a little more time. They WILL come around, they ARE coming around; maybe not as fast as the rest of us...but they are coming around.
