What Separates Us?

new boy

This is my first 4th of July as a non JW

So my question is what about patriotism?

As much as I believe that most of what the JW believes is in error. I do believe they have it right on nationism.

Our world is divide by skin color, race, sex, religion, and flag waving. If you meet someone and say "I 'm of Irish decent, catholic, republican, American from Texas. You have just mention 5 things that separates me from you!

The planet is ready for something different.

Everone who says we are right and everyone else is wrong, is what is bringing this world down.

Think you live in a great country-------Fine, but that does not give you the right to kill someone because they live in a different country?

When I went to my 20th high school reunion, a kid I went school with said "I thought about you alot in Viet Nam" I said "why?" "When we were killing poeple over there, to make the world a save place for democracy, I thought about us back in 5th grade, as we were all saying the flag salute, you just stood there with your hands by your side, not saying a word------- MAN, I really respect you for that!"

No one in my class of "67" died in Viet Nam, but 5 guys came back home to the U.S. from my class and killed themselfs.-------Happy 4th of July.

Incense_and_Peppermints

Our world is divide by skin color, race, sex, religion, and flag waving. If you meet someone and say "I 'm of Irish decent, catholic, republican, American from Texas. You have just mention 5 things that separates me from you!

i think they call it diversity. if you want us to ignore what makes us different from each other, then you can't allow people to celebrate their own cultures and beliefs. i like to celebrate cinco de mayo, for example. (i'm half-white and half-latino). at the same time, i don't expect people to pretend i'm lily-white. i'm me, and my heritage is a part of me. what's wrong with celebrating your own individual heritage? what's wrong with waving the flag? we always take little american flags and sparklers with us at fourth of july celebrations and wave them around... it's fun. it doesn't mean i'm being exclusive. it just means i am an american citizen, and happy to be living in such a great country. how can you say jehovah's witnesses have it right on nationism? you mean as far as not saluting the flag or not defending the country in which they live? yeah i guess it's ok for my son to die defending his country, while jehovah's witnesses enjoy the religious freedoms 'worldly' men die defending...

Perfection Seeker

This is a tough one. The first time I went to church- last December- and saw a flag on the stage- I was way turned off. I have always been turned off flag salutes, etc- because of my witness upbringing. Now, I do understand the flag salute- since the 911 tragedy- more than ever- I do understand pledging your allegiance to the USA- instead of being a defector, etc. Who knows how we would have felt having NOT been raised a witness. Everyone else just takes the flag salute & patriotism for granted. I guess you'll have to see how you personally feel- For me- I enjoy the fireworks, getting together with family since we all have time off, etc. Never really thought much about the overall picture. Its OK to pick & choose your beliefs. You might not be 100% witness, or 100% catholic, or 100% any certain one religion. Just take what your own conscience tells you & go from there. Good luck! Melissa

QUANTUM

Well I'm about to get in trouble again.

The posts which I have made have generally instigated great rath against me. But here it goes again.

Whether you "REALLY" realize it or not, the affiliation you had with a mind controling, dogmatic, vitriolic and contemptuous church against the "ENTIRE" world, not too mention against many of their own, continues to "HIGHLY" influence many of you eventhough you think you've broken free. Many exhibit the same kind of narrow thinking and attitudes you tried to break from. Many of you should seek out organizations which can deprogram you. Mind control is nothing to fool with. It can and often does stay with you for ever.

What ever happened to the attitude of "moderation in all things".

Is everything totally evil because there is evil in the world. NO!

Does saluting the flag of a country you affiliate with as a citizen an evil thing. You have things in common with the other citizens and neighbors and freinds and family; a common heritage. DON'T you know it was GOD who separated us into nations. We worship GOD not the nation...Where does it say except in the JW's religion that you can't honor people who do great things, paint inspiring pictures produce wonderful music which makes you happy, people who saved others from tyrrany and slavery. There is always good and bad. Do we throw out all the good because of the bad.What if all of the churches in the world were exactly like the JW's....with their hard line on every issue. Where every other church felt that the other churches and their followers were of the devil and their prayers never reach GOD because HE doesn't recognize them......There would be so much hate in this world that we would have nuked each other years ago....Lighten up! If you just treat everyone how you want to be treated you will never have a problem. I too am working on this and am a long way off. But the road is clearly marked if one opens their eyes.

I also need to work on patience!

QUANTUM

larc

new boy, I fully understand your lack of identity with your country. I felt the same as you do when I first left the religion. Over a long period of time, I developed a love and respect for my country. I can't say that will happen to you, but that was my experience. QUANTUM, Would you just shut up and move on. If the entire world were JWs there would be no wars, since they are pacifists. At least I hope that is the way it would turn out.

DakotaRed

No one in my class of "67" died in Viet Nam, but 5 guys came back home to the U.S. from my class and killed themselfs

It always saddens me to hear of any of my brothers having committed suicide. But, please bear in mind that it isn't always because of the conflict, but sometimes was due to the public outcry against us returning veterans and the way we were villified. Even today, the myth of the deranged Vietnam veteran abounds.

Vietnam is a classic example of getting involved in a what I felt then was necessary conflict, and still feel it, but without garnering public support for the involvment. Also bear in mind, it was the first time John Q. Public was treated to scenes of real warfare, in living color, at dinner time, every night.

I'm very sorry you lost friends due to it, I lost way too many there and today, for some reason, I cannot even remember their names, only their faces.

Lew W

larc

Dakota Red, I think it took a long time, but I think the country finally has a respect for your sacrifice. You did not loose the war, Robert MacNemara lost the war. That is my opinion, and I could elaborate, if you want me to.

DakotaRed

Larc, I agree with you. MacNamara was the beginning of the loss of Vietnam way before we really got deep into it. Since his book came out and he said he always knew it was a losing proposition, I have to ask, what the hell was I doing there?

I have never once felt ashamed of my service or that we lost that war. In truth, the Vietnamese actually lost it, we were gone when Saigon fell in 1975. My attitude was that we were winning when I left, as most every other Vet I know feels.

But, the new found acceptance by the general public also comes with the denial of those who treated us like scum back then. Even the JWs let me know how "stupid" I was to go. Although I wasn't active, they didn't even like me holding a lifetime membership in the DAV, but didn't give me an awful lot of grief over it.

Anything you wish to contribute, though, please do. Although not as prevelant as it was some thirty years ago, it too was another thing that deeply seperated the country.

edited to add some site for Larc and others to preview;

http://www.vhfcn.org/stat.htm

http://www.pbr-fva.org/statist.html

Lew W

Edited by - DakotaRed on 4 July 2002 1:51:56

QUANTUM

larc:

just trying to wake up all you livin' in the past junkies. There's a time and a place it seems for everything. It was time for the people of the late 17 hundreds to break free from Britain. It's time for you to move on larc. You enjoy living in dark places. Snap out of it.

QUANTUM THE GREAT!!!!!

Bang

Larc,

If the entire world were JWs there would be no wars, since they are pacifists.

No, they're not. They look to the death of the 'enemy' with a glee; scapegoaters. Even "Herod and Pilate became friends that day."

They should have realised that evil is right at home in 'houses' that are "swept and tidy".

Bang

Edited by - Bang on 4 July 2002 8:57:17

What Separates Us?

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