What Separates Us?

by new boy 22 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  QUANTUM

  larc:

  I definitely am not aware of all of the things you are referring to. If constructive inroads have made appreciable advances then I would like to know of them. Has any of these efforts touched the lives of the troubled JW's or the untroubled, for that matter, to convince them to bolt for the door. Where's the evidence?

  For many years I and a JW freind of mine have discussed our separate religions. The one thing he could never provide for his interpretive arguments was evidence outside of the the Bible. Considering the unique interpretation the WTS makes of the Bible I felt, as any apologist would, that meaningful evidence was fair to ask for. The only thing he could ever do is quote what someone else said who agreed at least in part, with him, about the subject we were discussing. Hard evidence for things like The New World Translation, taking liberty to inject Jehovahs name in their New Testament ( as some other translaters have also clearly done) he could never supply except to say others have done the same thing and certain commentaries of the Bible equate various Old Testament passages with New Testament verses. Therefore eventhough none of the extant Greek manuscripts have the (YHWH....not to mention Jehovah) Justification as far as he was concerned was (1) If other Bibles did the same thing( even though not recognized by any real school of traditional or current scholarship) & (2) We as JW's are the only ones who really know what the Bible says and we don't need any outside evidence. His holy spirit tells us ( meaning of course the general governing body etc.). & (3) some one some place at some time said it was in the New Testament originally but removed by apostates( which I would have considered if there was one scintilla of documentation in support of such a claim).

  SO, up until recently, when I began to understand more fully the corrupt nature of the society, we argued doctinal differences which seemed to be from a mutual application of certain scholarly standards. I was totally mistaken because of his deception. It didn't occur to me that there were things he was leaving out of our discussions ( over a twenty year period) Which would have changed the entire tenor of are discussions, if indeed there ever would have been any. As it turned out, ever issue ultimately is so narrowly defined by the JW's using their criteria. Nothing else can be considered because that would be entering into territory "Tabooed" by the WTS.

  The point of all this rambling is I'm a person who needs evidence for heresay comments. Especially since I was deceived by several JW's, being all mutual freinds through work. I also have a vindictiveness about me which I know is a flaw in my character. My problem with that is, however, I kind of enjoy getting even. I also get a sence of satisfaction by pointing out certain peoples failings when it's dealing with, what I consider to be very serious life encompassing issues which are detremental to all of our well beings. This blood transfusion business is a case in point not to mention the shild abuse proliferation. Parents who can deny there under aged children accepted medical practices during life threatening situations is abhorrent to me. Adults who would prefer to live but are persuaded in the most controling manner the there salvation would be in absolute jeopardy if they should decide at the last minute to save there life as recommended by a competant doctors advice.

  The road is rocky where many of these issues are concerned and that is why dedicated intellegent people need to get involved. This cannot be a finatical fringe group like those few who use deadly force to promote there equally misguided ideas and sulutions. A clearly defined movement which is more, much more than a handing out of anti literature at one of the Kingdom halls or some JW convention. Workable techniques which have genuine results need to be developed

  I am not or ever was one of you. You and the other escapees are or should be the accountable ones in helping others to escape and build a wrecking ball sufficient enough to help bring down this spiritually poisonous & deadly organism.

  QUANTUM>>>>>yes, when I walk into a room people notice. when I speak people listen. They don't always agree nor do I demand them to.
• 

  Sentinel

  Keith,

  All of us have been faced with so many mixed feelings regarding the country we reside in. For so long, we were told certain things about allegiance. We enjoyed all the freedoms of Free Countries, but did NOT HAVE THE FREEDOM to express them in any way, such as standing for anthems, and saying a pledge of allegiance, or making our voice heard in the way of policies and politics of our government..

  In high school, when the U.S. was beginning to flex it's war muscles, and "putting their two cents worth in" in other countries where they weren't particularly invited. Who am I to now say whether the cause was right or wrong. History stands on it's own merits. As a JW, I was so separate from all of it--so apart from the world. I didn't really have an opinion, other than just turning the other way, and spouting out religous dogma.

  I think lots of other students thought that I was making some sort of "political statement" by not saying the pledge, or standing when the National Anthem was played. It seemed to be "the in thing" to be rebellious, and of course, I was doing it because I was borg. But, I was physically slapped, pushed and bullied by other very agressive students, who were very patriotic. (And I took it as persecution for doing the right thing.)

  I have always thought it odd that we humans wear a cross around our necks, an image of the "supposed means of death" for the son of God. I thought it was sick. I thought to myself that it was rather like wearing a symbol of a sword or gun, or automobile, anything that "causes" death of the ones we love.

  I have always had great respect for our country. My father was a WWII Hero, and although war is hell, sometimes, we had no choice but to fight for our freedom from the persistant aggressor. I did, however, have a bit of a problem with the "fireworks". As simple as it seems, as pretty as they are, they represent bombs and artilery going off, people dying and people injured. I try to "remove" that image, even now, but it's still there. The affects of war are horrible. I find no pleasure in the reinactments of the Civil War, although I live in an area steeped in the history of the Battle of Manassas and Bull Run. I don't understand why we make WAR such a great thing.

  Perhaps it is just because I am female that I have these feelings. I don't know for certain. The first thing I did when I got out was vote for a Presidential Election. It felt wonderful, that perhaps my one vote might make a difference, but moreso, because this country gives you the freedom to have a choice. It's not that way everywhere. JW's TAKE so much from this country, and yet they really take no active part in how we keep it going the way it has. They don't take any part in any type of politics, even down to voting in the school elections for class president. So, I've always wondered, even when I was in, why they moan and complain so much about this or that, and do absolutely nothing to change anything.

  It had been so long since I said the pledge that I had to re-learn it, along with the other anthems. I think they are beautiful songs. They reflect the unity and purpose of a good country. We're not perfect, but we do have freedoms that others don't have. We take these so for granted. Moreso lately, we have learned just how close the enemy is, and how they can disguise themselves by blending in.

  I'm proud to be an American. I'm proud that my father served in WWII, and in his youth, volunteered to go to the ends of hell and back for all that we hold dear to our hearts. There are many that post here from all over the world. I'm certain you hold your freedoms just as dear as I do.

  Well, I just thought I'd put my two-cents worth in here.

  Peace and Love,

  Karen/Sentinel
• 

  larc

  Quantum, you asked what has been accomplished. I will answer on both a macro and a micro level. On a macro level, the growth rate among the JWs has been stopped in its tracks in 25 countries for the past five years. On the micro level, you can read the dozens of personal experiences of people on this site, who have read important books or found information on the internet, and how this information has changed their lives.