Can music & pot = a spiritual experience?

by truman 27 Replies latest social entertainment

Satanus

By learning to navigate on it, i meant what you said and more. Like when you take a trip, you decide where you want to go ahead of time. Just going w the flow is fun too, but after a while you may want to explore specific areas of your own psyche. You may want to try using it like a therapy tool, focusing on specific issues or fears, in order to overcome them.
I consider its use w music as an external type of trip. As well, trips with other people are external. It's observing how you relate to other things. An internal exploration would probably be done in privacy, in a quiet place.
Also, one can use it to observe nature more intently. Nature (the plant kind) has a serenity of its own.
SS
Cath

Hi truman,
I have only just been dealing with trying to get off the mj because of the guilt over it being an illegal substance. I haven't succeeded in getting off it yet,lol, but have spoken with my therapist about it and he says not to worry about it....it is my friend at the moment and when the time is truly right the need for it will just fall away.
He made me feel even better when he told me that it is/was used by a lot of the mystics to get in touch with thier "higher selves". I actually use it to access my innermost feelings as it lets me get right inside my own head. I also LOVE to listen to music when I am stoned as I have the same sort of experience as you do. Maybe not quite as strong but definitely spiritual or of a spiritual nature. Oh dear, I hope I am making sense.
My children are also adult and they have smoked it with me regularly for a few years which is an experience in itself. I have been out clubbing with them (3 girls) and had some of the best times of my life. Two of them are now in London working and want to take me clubbing over there as they say it is different again to over here. However I don't need the hype anymore and just enjoy kicking back with my mj and music at home and I can still get the same effect.
Enjoy and have fun. You have done with all the bringing up the kids and catering to the whims of damn fools if you know what I mean. It is now your turn. Love yourself and give yourself whatever you want/need to make YOU happy. Get a little bit selfish.
Hugs
Cath
SixofNine

It's funny, 'cuz I identify with all the feelings you talked about in your first post, but, if anything, it all just serves to convince me that any "spirituality" we humans have, is all just related to chemical reactions in our brain.
It is all fascinating to me, because as I was leaving the witnesses, I let my friend Cathy (a fairly new, fairly liberal witness, who had done lots of drugs in her past) know that I intended to try some different drugs, specifically marijuana and mushrooms, possibly acid. While she had a certain fondness for marijauna, even as she was strongly discouraging me, she was convinced that the WT society's stance on drugs (blanket statement "drugs", as if they are all the same) equaling spiritism was correct. She was convinced that she had been influenced by demons while on drugs.
I tried to reason with her, just as I would try to reason with you; why is your reaction to marijuana (or mushrooms, etc etc) any more a "spiritistic" (or in her case "demonistic") encounter than your reaction to sudafed? Granted, they are very different reactions, but they are brain chemisty reactions none the less.
Different drugs produce different feelings, LSD is especially attributed to "spirituality". But why? We know what these drugs do, why pretend it is a mystery? I guess because we can't imagine that such wild stuff "lives" within us. It does, deal with it.
I suppose it all sounds a bit unromantic, my point of view, but the truth is, I love the feeling of being in a crowd, and feeling the common energy being channeled thru us by the music. And if a chemical enhances that feeling, I love it all the more. I love the connected feeling - to the universe, to my fellow man, that comes from seeing a young black hood rat unabashedly making a fool of himself, as he takes impromptue Irish dancing lessons from a middleaged white house-frump, listening to an energeticly rocking nuevo-Scottish band.
I guess I'm just clueless as to the so-called spiritual aspect of it (maybe I need to go ahead and try the mushrooms or acid, haven't done that yet), but it can sure go a long way towards bringing the traditional benifits promised (but never delivered) by spirtituality. As SS said, world peace just might break out, if enough people try this powerful combination, music and marijuana. Hells bells Marje, if they just give themselves over to one or the other, the world would be a better place.
COMF

Never had anything I could call a spiritual experience while on pot. Lots of laughing at nothing in particular, lots of dry mouth, lots of munchies, and lots of saying, "Oh, wow, man...". But nothing spiritual.
Acid, now... whoo.
PS. Never go shopping while high on pot. You're likely to come home with something like a gallon jar of pickled okra.
Edited by - COMF on 14 July 2002 14:19:53
simplesally

Marijuana just made me sleepy and hungry. I hated it.
Mushrooms, well they made me laugh. Always had fun on them, even tho they tasted funny.
LSD, not stupid enough to try it. Wrecks the brain, you can have bad trips years later.
Cocaine, it was fun. Made me talk lots, made us stay up late and play cards. Got too expensive and too addictive. Had to change friends.
Glad I am a grown up now, its all illegal and I wouldn't want to get arrested, lose my job or even worse, lose my child over something like this.
COMF

LSD, not stupid enough to try it. Wrecks the brain, you can have bad trips years later.
Do yourself a favor, Sally... only talk about stuff you know bout. This is bullshit.
simplesally

Sorry Charlie, my ex-husband had flash backs, doctor said it was from a bad LSD trip. And Comf, I prefer you not swear at me when you comment.
truman

beckyboop,
I appreciate your observations about being able to loose the fetters on one's mind. I have
more analytical rather than emotionally based thought processes, and I find that my
constant tendency to intellectualize everything rather than be able to just go with it is a
fetter of the mind at times. This experience showed me that there is a way past that
roadblock.
I haven't heard any of 'Widespread Panic', but they sound like fun. I'll have to ask my son;
he has a wide variety of music.
-----------------------
Cath,
I loved your account of going clubbing with your daughters. I was with my (walkaway
JW) son at this TOOL concert, and obviously with the pot. Relating to him through the
music and so forth has really improved our relationship, which was deteriorating rapidly
when he left the WTS before I did. It is great going out and experiencing life with people
who still have some life left in them, and finding out that I still have some life left in me
too. Good luck with your own struggles and hugs.
-------------------------------
SixofNine,
You are making points about brain chemistry which I have also given thought to. It is
certainly possible and maybe even justified to de-mystify the artificially induced alteration
of one's consciousness to a dissertation on brain chemistry. But I think that having an
understanding of the process on the scientific level can still leave mystery there to
experience.
You have used two different words- 'spiritistic' and 'spiritual(ity)'. Are you making a
distinction between these two things? Coming from a WT background, of course, to me
'spiritistic' has a negative connotation, possibly demonistic, a perjorative. Spirituality,
however means something much more positive. I certainly won't presume to try to come
up with a comprehensive definition, but to me, at least, I feel it may or may not include
**GOD**. Whether it means contact with supreme being, ultimate power, universal
consciousness, or not, at least it seems to mean contact with a part of onesself previously
uncontacted, maybe a higher part, a part which steps outside the ordinary world.
One the other hand, if having a spiritual experience, through whatever means, is possible,
that surely must be one of the most subjective things one could describe. If having such
an experience means stepping onto the plane of reality which contains the ultimate, how
else would we be able to approach this except through the mechanism of our physical
bodies? What else should we expect but that the line of communication would be through
our senses? Maybe like you say, it is just 'wild stuff that lives within us' but whatever it is,
it is new to me and exhilarating. It is something I need to think through more and
experience more.
----------------------------
COMF
Thanks for the tip. I hate pickled okra!
------------------------------
Simple Sally,
I understand how you feel about the illegality of these various substances(I have no experience with other than marijuana, and no intention to get any). I worry about that some. I am a law abiding person. The worst I have ever done is a little speeding, and never even had a ticket for that. I do not want the inside of a jail cell to be one of my "new experiences". That is something I have to deal with in this thing.
You said you are a grown up now. I am too, but I never had the chance to be much else. Though I didn't become a witness till I was 19, and already married, I was a very naive and goody-goody kid. After becoming a witness, I feel like I got stagnated in that, and never had a chance to grow in many ways. Now, I have the feeling I am living my life in reverse in some ways. Maybe some of it will be good, and some will be other, but it will all be something which I can learn from, and I need to do that. I need it, to feel, to know I am alive.
truman
COMF

Sally, I apologize for the swearing. Fill in the blank with your favorite non-offensive term meaning exactly the same thing as the word I used in the context in which I used it.
You may believe what you wish. There is no such thing as a bad trip; there are only people who can't handle the effects of the acid. And there is no such thing as a flashback in the sense that you and your doctor understand the term. I submit that you cannot even explain what "flashback" means, specifically, that is, which chemical effects of the drug are reproduced in ghostlike fashion after the chemical is gone from his system.
I know... you won't agree with any of this, and you'll rely on the authority of the doctor and the pronouncements of the anti-drug propagandists. I, on the other hand, have not only my own extensive firsthand experience, but the observed experiences of all my LSD-dropping friends over a period of about 10 years, including the ones who supposedly had "bad trips" and the ones who supposedly had flashbacks.
As I said before, it's all _____________.
Satanus

My theory is that the brain is an organ whose function, among others is to regulate the entry of sensations of reality. All the five senses report to the brain. I think it is very probable that the mind (brain??) has abilities for other senses in addition to these five.
Thought controll taught by the wt and other belief systems often make their adherents close down this brain valve. The reality jw's are able to accept is considerably smaller than that of the ordinary person. Some drugs open the brain valve to more/other realities (i'm taking liberties by using this word, as these perceptions may not always be reality). However, these realities can still be colored by preconcieved notions. Conversely, there are drugs that totally shut down all senses other than the usual 5. Medication for schitzophrenia is an example. Some drugs will selectively shut down some of the 5. For instance, paralyse the body but allow sight and hearing.
It could be that many of these extra sensory perceptions (esp) may come from the subconscious. It may be that esp have another source, but are only picked up by the subconscious, because the conscious mind censors them. And so, i have found from the stuff i've read, and my own experiences, that to find 'god', at least for myself, i need to look inward.
Comf has had more lsd experience than i. I hope he comments on this thought. The reason some people have 'bad' lsd trips, is because it opens the door to their subconscious too quickly, and let out too much of their negativity/dark side, for them to deal with. It needs to be dealt w more slowly. Michael hollingshead, the lsd apostle who introduced it to timothy leary, also intorduced it to some meditaters in nepal. He sat w one, waiting for him to describe the affects. The nepalese meditater felt no change. His life was already in accord w his subconscious. His brain valve more open than most peoples'.
This type of spirituality doesn't require faith, indeed it requires skepticism. Buddhists encourage doubt. In ths type of exploration, one gets direct experience, rather than relying on pronouncements of jews 2000-3000 yrs dead.
SS

Can music & pot = a spiritual experience?

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