NGO ? Please help! (page 3)

Bosho

WOW!

I'm stunned.

I'm afraid the nineties are a bit of a blur to me. Don't know why I sure wasn't under the influence!

I have to say thanks to everyone who has replied.

I also have to say I'm just so.... I don't know. I really don't know.

I'll come clean with the lot of you and see what you make of the mess that it me!

My parents (my father is now resting in peace) are witnesses, my aunt is, my brother, his wife, her family, my husband, all his family. (Get the picture.)

I've been going since I was born. (I'm now nearly thirty) and I have to admit that as a child I never paid attention. I was the one staring at the ceiling counting roof tiles!

I was always asking questions, always my question was " but why?" but most of the time, I'd just go with the flow... I still do if I'm honest.

I go to meetings and occassionaly go out on service... but I bet you can guess. It's just going with the flow!

BUt then this programme on panorama came on and I was shocked... I found this website through bbc website.

Now comes the part that shocked the hell out of me but won't surprise you at all.

I expected your forums to be "DIE witnesses DIE!"

But it's not, well not all the time anyway!. It's people who have put a lot of effort into researching things that concerned them.

And then I find things like this NGO thing and The Navy thing and the policy on One Witness thing (Children thing) and I think "Oh dear!"

Would anyone here object to me collating as much of your hard worked for research and sending it off the bethel to find out the truth once and for all?

I have to admit to being (Intellectually challenged) slow sometimes, so some of your arguments and findings..like the Navy thing.... go right over my head.

But I need to know. I need to know if there is something majorly wrong with the organisation or if it just Satan having a go at my already week faith.

I have to admit that if WTBS isn't God's organisation then I won't believe in God anymore at all. I can't see him using any other organisation. and the each one to this own thing doesn't make sense to me (please I'm not being offensive to anyone) because there is no unity in discord and what would the point of the bible be if people were just going to take what they wanted from it and discard the rest.

I really hope no one thinks I'm being a stuck up witness trying to defend her religon. I just want answers. badly.

Bosho

I must be slow!

I just worked out there's a time difference between our postings.

I live in Britain, England to be exact and it's now 4.45pm (I'm suppose to be cooking tea) here so I guess it must be like 9 or tenish in the evening ? yeah? Who knows!

Xander

that if WTBS isn't God's organisation then I won't believe in God anymore at all

Well, if you feel like going down that road any - check out 'The Jesus Mysteries' - a pretty good book. It's interesting to see how much of the 'gospel' accounts were nearly verbatim copies of MUCH EARLIER myths.

Also note that no details exist to prove Jesus even existed outside of the 'gospels' - and those weren't even STARTED until 30 years (IIRC) after Jesus is supposed to have died (back when the average lifespan wasn't much longer - so everyone who was old enough to confirm what the 'gospels' said were probably already dead).

It's also interesting to note that the 'Dead Sea Scrolls' which record in exacting detail the events of the world around the time supposed to be Jesus life & ministry (actually, far before and a little after) in the area Jesus was supposed to have been born, raised, and performed miracles in - somehow manages to not mention him AT ALL. Or, in fact, A SINGLE ONE OF HIS APOSTLES. Or, indeed, CHRISTIANITY AT ALL.

(As an aside - I know *exactly* what you are feeling. The shock of realizing you have been defending so vehemently for your ENTIRE life something that, it turns out, might not even be true - it's a little overwhelming.)

Xander

Actually, 11:55 here (eastern seaboard, USA) - but we have people posting from all over the world. I think there are even a couple posters from Poland - so they are even a few hours ahead of you, no?

Bosho

I thought that Josephus the historian, mentioned Jesus. In between tile counting I'm sure I heard that...

Xander

I've been going since I was born. (I'm now nearly thirty) and I have to admit that as a child I never paid attention. I was the one staring at the ceiling counting roof tiles!

See, I was such an uberJW that it wasn't even funny. Put in pioneer hours (back when they meant something) before even being baptised (2 days after my 17th birthday).

Regular auxilereed - I even remember having my mom and bro waiting in the school parking lot with a cargroup so I get could time in RIGHT AFTER school ended.

A honestly believed every word I was told, would defend it to the death in school (and it actually almost went that far a few times - we had some rough kids in our school who didn't like the self-righteous religious type too much).

Gave talks, ran mikes, I was on the quick ticket to MS-hood, then elderhood.

What started me questioning was a couple things at once:

1) Their change on the 'generation' position. For all my early life, I remember mom counting off the years "Well, someone who was an adult in 1914 would be how old now? See how close the end is! They are almost dead - and we know they will survive until the New Order!!"

then

"Well, someone who was a teen in 1914 would be how old now? See how close the end is! They are almost dead - and we know they will survive until the New Order!!"

then

"Well, someone who was born in 1914 would be how old now? See how close the end is! They are almost dead - and we know they will survive until the New Order!!"

finally...

"Well, the '1914 generation' doesn't mean anything - the 'generation' Jesus was referring to as being those who see armegeddon was the 'generation' that would be alive at the time of the end "

And the society all along saying they weren't backtracking or anything - this is just 'new light' - just a refinement of their understanding - not CHANGING, just REFINING. Uhhh...yeah....

2) Finally, it was them not allowing questions. "The truth cannot be hurt by a lie, but a lie can be exposed by the truth", no? So, what harm would doing research have? I mean, if we had the truth, doing any kind of research would easily show what kind of gem we had. Not the opposite. So, why did they oppose 'outside research' so much?

Now comes the part that shocked the hell out of me but won't surprise you at all.
I expected your forums to be "DIE witnesses DIE!"

I don't think anyone hear really holds anything against individial witnesses as a group - we, after all - almost all WERE witnesses at one time. It's just the policies of the org we have questions and problems with. As Panorama shows - with good reason!

Xander

Josephus the historian

Josephus mentioned the early christian movement - not really anything more.

The later documents of his where Jesus was described as 'wonderful' and 'miraculous' and such were added by the early Catholic scribes. (This is not really debated - historians consider it obvious based on the fragments of the documents they have that they were 'doctored' and these sections in particular).

Since we brought the Catholics up - you know how many 'gospel' books were written, right? HINT: Many more than 4! Indeed, even Mary is supposed to have written one. Tell me, who picked 'Matthew', 'Mark', 'Luke', and 'John' as the four gospel books in the 'Bible'? Another hint: Wonder why, with all the gospel accounts available, the NWT has the same four as....every Protestant Religion's Bible? The Catholic Bible? Even wonder of ALL the 'sacred texts' the jews had (more than just the Old Testament, believe me!) and all the letters sent between the early Christian congregations (more than to the Ephesians, Galatians, etc.), the NWT has the EXACT same books as the Protestant Bible?

Who picked which books were 'in' and which were 'out'? Just things to ponder...

Bosho

Xander

Funnily enough, I accepted the changing of the times quite easily.

Several things in my short lifetime have been changed... I can imagine the outcry when Birthdays and christmasses were banned. Not that I am that old!

I reasoned along the scriptural lines of the light getting brighter...etc.etc

No, what's thrown me is this business of being in NGO and the navy thing.

And yes I too was bullied for being a witness. I don't think there's witness kid alive that doesn't know what being kicked and spat on is like.

larc

Bosho, I know all of this must be a shock to you. I admire your courage in doing this research. I would make one suggestion. If you decide to share this with family and friends, I would recommend doing so in very small doses. Most people who are exposed to a large amount of such information go into a defensive mode, where they just shut off their mind and shut out the information. Regarding belief in God or not, I suggest you take your time and see where the information takes you personally. Regarding Bethel and sending them information, my guess is that they either will ignore your material, especially if it is voluminous, or they will send you a standard form letter that really does not answer your questions. If you do get a letter from them, I think it would be good to post it here and let us give some input. Again, I commend you on your courage.

NGO ? Please help!

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