THE DILEMMA FACING APOSTATES

by You Know 134 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • stocwach
    stocwach

    The real irony of You Know is that he is a JW apologist who claims to be an active JW, yet his mantra shows he himself is an apostate by the organization's own definition, although due to his demented reasoning, fails to admit this fact.

    He claims instead this is not the case, and that the Society is well aware of his position on matters related to the Borg. Common logic then will tell us:

    a)If what he says is true, then this fact made available to the masses of rank and file JWs would surely cause a fallout of massive proportions due to the organization exercising a double standard and not taking action against him, and prove unequivocally that this is not Jehovah's organization like everyone has been led to believe, because if it were, surely this individual would have been purged long ago so as to avoid causing divisions amongst the brothers.

    or

    b) You Know is merely a liar, and he would surely be disfellowshipped in an instant if his views were made known to the Society/elders, and thereby at least corroborate the perception of the masses that Jehovah's organization is being cleansed.

    SORRY YOU KNOW, BUT THERE'S NO IN BETWEEN.

  • berten
    berten

    >The opinion of an apostate Dub carries no weight with me.
    >Why should it? / You Know

    Then why the heck defend your "faith" in here,if anything
    we say carries no weight with you.Why bother?

  • seven006
    seven006

    Holy shit Bobby, haven't you gathered up enough hours preaching on this board to impress the elders in your congregation yet? Your blowhard excuses are getting a bit out of had. If your beloved fairy tail god and religion are so secure why do you waste your time rubbing elbows so much with us? Who in the hell are you trying to convince? If you spent as much time preaching to your own dumfounded brothers and sisters as you do us they might let you handle the microphones again.

    The only one you are trying to convince with all your bullshit is you. You are loosing faith with each and every post. Reading between the lines of your nonsense is beginning to be quite a hobby for most of us. You are scared out of your diapers and you come here to see if you can convince yourself that all your story book drivel holds any water. You are so blinded by your cult you let the real truth about your bullshit roll off like water on a ducks back. You would never admit anything that is said in response to you to have any kind of truth in it because you are afraid.

    Go get a life Bob and quit living off the hard work of your brothers and sisters. You are such a leach. Get a job or a hobby or something to keep that twisted mind of yours occupied.

    It's no wonder why you never get laid. Get a life Bobby, your sucking ours right out of our eyeballs.

    Have you ran out of lithium again?

    Your pal,

    Dave

  • NeonMadman
    NeonMadman
    Obviously apostate dubs at one time did believe that there was a solid foundation of our faith otherwise you wouldn't have spent those many years trying to convince others that you had the truth. Many of you were elders, ministerial servants, pioneers, and some even anointed. Where you that stupid?

    At one time I also believed that there was a Santa Claus. As I became more aware of the facts, I came to understand that teaching to be false.

    A similar argument might be put to all JW's who were formerly of other religions. Did they not at one time believe that there was a solid basis for believing in their former religion? But Jehovah's Witnesses brought them information that they were previously unaware of, which convinced them that the JW's had the truth. The problem is that, at that point, the organization expects new converts to stop considering new information that might result in a change in belief. "Independent thinking" is forbidden, once you have come to accept Watchtower teaching. The call of Jehovah's Witnesses to others to "examine the teachings of any religious organization with which you are associated" is lost on the Witnesses themselves.

    Jehovah's Witnesses present themselves well to someone who has little or no knowledge of the Bible, and, even more to the point, to one who has little or no knowledge of the JW organization itself. How many baptismal candidates, thinking they are getting into the organization just in time to survive Armageddon, realize that the end has been "just around the corner" for 125 years now, and that, in fact, the organization has repeatedly predicted specific dates for Armageddon without success? I certainly didn't know any of that when I was baptized in 1969. But everyone was telling me that the end was coming by 1975, and I had made it to the safety of the organization just in time. Of course, nothing happened in 1975. Now, I see people becoming JW's who have never even heard of 1975, and if they do hear about it, it is made to sound as if it was just a few brothers on the "fringe" who got that idea, and that the organization never said or implied such a thing. Those of us who lived through that time know otherwise.

    The point is that Jehovah's Witnesses are, and always have been, deceptive in their recruiting, in many, many ways. Prospective converts will hear only positives about the Society. Negatives, no matter how compelling, will never be mentioned. A baptismal candidate is likely never to have heard about the pedophile scandals, the UN-NGO issue or the organization's history of false prophecies, or a dozen other scandals. If they know about them at all, it will not be because they heard it from the Witness who studied with them or other JW sources; likely it will have been from the "forbidden" internet or the news media.

    Even more to the point: A baptismal candidate may know that JW's are not supposed to take blood transfusions. But will he really understand that he will be expected to lay down his life for this teaching, or face disfellowshipping? A baptismal candidate may know that JW's can be disfellowshipped and shunned for immoral practices, but does he really understand that he can also be disfellowshipped simply for disagreeing with the organization's teachings in any area? Do you think that, if they were made aware of these things, many baptismal candidates would reconsider joining this organization?

    By keeping these things hidden, the JW's manage to get many recruits who would never join if they were fully informed. Once inside, they are subject to massive peer pressure and threat of shunning by friends and family to keep them in line. I can certainly say with complete honesty, if I had known before I was baptized all that I now know about the JW organization, I would never have become a part of it. Many others who post here are in the same situation.

    Ironically, one of the strongest evidences that we do indeed possess the true faith is the existence of apostates themselves.

    That is no evidence at all. Most JW's are themselves "apostates" from other religions. Does that mean that these other religions also possess the "true faith"? The only difference is that most other religions do not "beat their brothers" who have left the fold the way that the JW organization does.

    there are imposters who are like Jannes and Jambres who resisted Moses, "men completely corrupted in mind, disapproved as regards the faith," whose "madness will be very plain to all."

    One could argue that Jehovah's Witnesses themselves are such imposters, having apostatized from the faith of true Christianity as taught in the Bible, and descended into the worship of an organization of men.

  • dubla
    dubla

    more faulty logic i failed to comment on:

    . Ironically, one of the strongest evidences that we do indeed possess the true faith is the existence of apostates themselves. According to the prophecy in 2 Timothy the 3rd chapter, there are imposters who are like Jannes and Jambres who resisted Moses, "men completely corrupted in mind, disapproved as regards the faith,"

    i knew a witness once (hes an elder now) that was actually raised amish. by joining the jws, and speaking out against all other religions (as false religion), he became an "apostate" to his parents, joining the other ex-amish as "apostates" in their mind.

    i suppose using yks logic here then, one of the strongest evidences that the amish do indeed possess the true faith is the existence of these "apostates". according to the prophecy in 2 timothy the 3rd chapter, these amish apostates are "men completely corrupted in mind, disapproved as regards the faith".

    aa

  • You Know
    You Know

    Berten asks:

    Then why the heck defend your "faith" in here,if anything we say carries no weight with you.Why bother?

    Because what I write carries some weight with a few of you. Paul warned the brothers about those who would use 'smooth talk and complimentary speech to seduce the hearts of guileless ones.' There are innocent ones whom I believe have been stumbled by what apostates have brought to their attention regarding our faith. It is encouraging for them to some to see how these various stumbling blocks can be overcome by using Jehovah's word to good effect. / You Know

  • ThatSucks
    ThatSucks

    :YouKnow: Because what I write carries some weight with a few of you.

    That's right. We hear your pain, and know that you, like so many people on this planet, need professional psycholigical counsel.

    *((Big hug for Robert))*

  • NeonMadman
    NeonMadman
    Madman simply said he didn't believe it was the truth.

    Actually, that's not what I said. I said that there is no evidence of a connection between the Watchtower organization and God. Your entire argument in the first post in this thread revolved around the assumption that the JW's have the truth, and that these nasty apostates are running around casting aspersions on the JW's. You then presented Biblical examples to demonstrate that individuals such as Moses and David were less than perfect, but still had God's approval. I pointed out that Moses and David had the evidence of God's approval, but there is no evidence that the JW's as an organization have God's approval. I also pointed out that the burden of proof is upon you to show that the JW's are God's organization as you claim, and not upon us "apostates" to prove that they are not. Without such proof, the entire underlying assumption of your post (and, in fact, of the majority of your posts) disappears.

  • You Know
    You Know

    Madman writes

    At one time I also believed that there was a Santa Claus.

    Then you believed an unscriptural falsehood. My faith can be 100% supported by the word of my God.

    A similar argument might be put to all JW's who were formerly of other religions. Did they not at one time believe that there was a solid basis for believing in their former religion?

    Of course. Paul wrote about those who have a zeal for God but not according to accurate knowledge.

    The problem is that, at that point, the organization expects new converts to stop considering new information that might result in a change in belief. "Independent thinking" is forbidden, once you have come to accept Watchtower teaching.

    Yes. That's the dillema apostates are facing. As I mentioned, you don't have the spiritual insight to deal with the deep things of Satan that you have foolishly ingested because the Watchtower hasn't spelled it all out for you. That's why you are in the mess you are in right now as the world is careening towards a date with disaster.

    How many baptismal candidates, thinking they are getting into the organization just in time to survive Armageddon, realize that the end has been "just around the corner" for 125 years now, and that, in fact, the organization has repeatedly predicted specific dates for Armageddon without success?

    All but the most pathetically mentally challenged individual should know that the Watchtower has been around for more the century and that Jehovah's Witnesses have been in a high state of expectation of Christ's return. If you were unawre of that when you were baptized I would imagine that you probably believed in Santa well up into your "adult" years.

    The point is that Jehovah's Witnesses are, and always have been, deceptive in their recruiting, in many, many ways.

    I won't argue that point. The prophecy in Zephaniah I quoted specifically says that Jehovah will remove the "tricky tongue" from our mouths so that we will no longer, even inadvertantly, tell a lie. Again, you assume you know the Bible, but you don't have a clue what Jehovah's judicial decisions are regarding his people. You are simply verifying what I have written. / You Know

  • OUTLAW
    OUTLAW

    The Dilemma Facing You Know:First off DipShit,there are very few,if any,apostates on this board.Secondly,you haven`t been right yet.Theres not a whole lot more you can say about bullshit...OUTLAW

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