Going back to the 2008 Generation

by FusionTheism 28 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  prologos

  "In the secondary fulfillment, Jesus was promising that some Anointed Ones would still be alive when Jesus returns to judge the Sheep and Goats."

  FusionTheism, where do you get the above idea to limit "all these things" to the judgement? Jesus said "--generation will not pass until ALL these things occur. not just the herding of the goats! but: Math. 24:21 "--tribulation that has not occurred since the world's beginning, no, nor will occur again." -- this can only mean Armageddon, bigger than wiping out the dinos, he flood, and there will be no "anointed" left at Armageddon, that overlapping generation WILL have passed away, contradicting Jesus's prediction. But

  if the book says "disciples" rather than "anointed", we will have to have them, OS Great crowders overlapping too soon.
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  Fisherman

  I think they are abandoning the overlapping part

  Why would Jesus use generation to mean something special and different from how the Bible uses generation to mean (length in years= 120 max). In terms of length in years, everyone from 1914 dies within 2014-2016. There are only a couple of people alive from the 1800's.
  
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  FusionTheism

  prologos,

  The February 15, 2008 Watchtower says that Jesus' promise means that some of the Anointed will remain on earth until the BEGINNING of the Tribulation (however, Watchtower articles this year have updated this and said that some of the Anointed must remain on earth until the judging of the Sheep and Goats right before Armageddon):

  Watchtower, 2/15/2008:

  Christ’s faithful anointed brothers, the modern-day John class, have recognized this sign as if it were a flash of lightning and have understood its true meaning. As a class, these anointed ones make up the modern-day “generation” of contemporaries that will not pass away “until all these things occur.”* This suggests that some who are Christ’s anointed brothers will still be alive on earth when the foretold great tribulation begins.
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  FusionTheism

  Fisherman,

  Yeah, that's why I think they're having to abandon the overlapping part, because it's totally different from what Jesus would have meant in the first fulfillment of 70 A.D.

  But if they return to the 2008 view, they can say Jesus just meant all the Anointed in both time periods.
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  FusionTheism

  prologos,

  Yeah, you're right on the word "disciples." The Society says both Anointed and Great Crowd are disciples. So I wonder what the new Jesus book is actually getting at.
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  Fisherman

  This suggests
  

  The length in years of generation cannot go beyond the scriptural meaning in any case.

  The problem is that if the anointed that saw the sign in 1914 all died, (which was not the case in 70) how can the prophecy apply to them when it says "when you see all these things happening.." It can't, if the prophecy simply means what it means. The overlapping definition makes sense and it is a legal doctrinal chess move but there is no scriptural basis or support of it. In other words, it means overlapping because Jesus said that his disciples will see all of the signs, and overlap is the only way to do if the ones that saw the beginning are dead.
  
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  prologos

  Fusiontheism: 1) until the BEGINNING of the Tribulation

  2) until the judging of the Sheep and Goats right before Armageddon):

  Jesus: not pass away until Armageddon* is a fait accompli. The tribulation can not be great if it does not include Armageddon.

  Wt is contradicting Jesus, they are putting limits that the text does not allow. (taking away word's meanings)

  * biggest earthly disaster ever, since life existed. (the impact that created the Moon was bigger than the scope jesus put on it, but no conscious life was existing then, that we know of.) world meaning the world of mankind or unkind like cain.
  
  

  
  
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  Fisherman

  Wt is contradicting Jesus, they are putting limits that the text does not allow. (taking away word's meanings)

  How so? Jesus said that he was going to return. That he was going to give a sign and that every eye would see him, Rev talks about those coming out of the great tribulation and through out the Bible there is a theme of the end, for example Daniel 2:44. Any way you cut it, Jesus meant a great tribulation during the time of the end leading to Armageddon. The point is, that in terms of WT 1914, WT interpretation is not void until 1914 passes away. What everything else means, sheep and goats..... and all of that, it is interpreatation. What is on the cutting edge now is generation as it applies to 1914 according to WT 1914 teaching.
  
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  prologos

  "Jesus meant a great tribulation during the time of the end leading to Armageddon." Fisherman, how do you know what Jesus meant?

  where does it say in the record Great Tribulation LEADING to Armageddon?. The GT is not only the foreplay to the Climax, the mopping up of all the bad soldiers, slaves, babies. The world history will be a picnic compared to Armageddon, It is the most important part of All these things, and if the "anointed" wt writers would be there, not raptured yet, able to see their error.

  Armageddon is part of the great tribulation. the All of these things.While the word Armageddon does not appier in the gospel end prophecies, as a scope of disasters, it is there, described by it's absolute max size.
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  Fisherman

  Fisherman, how do you know what Jesus meant?

  Prologos and Epilogos. My comment was not about the exact interpretation of what Jesus meant.The only way to know is directly from God. The substance of what I am trying to say is that given WT teaching of 1914, generation is expiring now. That is it. In terms of knowing exactly what everything means in the Bible, I do not know but I have formed a mental picture of everything and conclusions-But, there are things that I do know.