personal boundaries (page 2)

libra_spirit

garybuss,

That was a most excellent post!

Guest 77

Francois, here's one you'll enjoy. My pioneer partner lied behind my back and I was removed as a Book study conductor because of it.

I got a little tipsy one night and I beat the crap out of him! The brother went out in service the next day and the congregation servant asked what happened to his face, he told him the story. The overseer said to me,....... "What you did was not right, but he deserved it!"

Nothing happened to me. I got back my job. I didn't talk about it, I did something about it.

Guest 77

Nathan Natas

Guest77 -

SWEET!

You Canadians certainly are prone to violence, aren't you?

- "American Cowboy" Nathan

Edited by - Nathan Natas on 24 July 2002 19:41:25

Cowboy

GB-great post,very good,valid point.

I liked everyone's comments,especially Nathan's,that I don't care what they think anymore.Perhaps that is a sign of placing a boundary on the influence the WTS has in our lives.

Cowboy

Sentinel

gb,

Great post as always. I suppose we all have questioned ourselves, now that we are "out", as to how we could ever have allowed ourselves to be "taken in" so horribly. It is a crush to us. We feel so used and abused.

Perhaps we fall into it, because we are "used" to being abused. Perhaps we come from an abusive, dysfunctional family already, and fit right into the borg, like the piece of a puzzle. We actually feel comfortable, protected, at peace. We know nothing else.

The problem many have with "coming to a screeching halt", or "stopping", is that usually, family members are inmeshed in the organization. If one member even misses a meeting, the others all try to see what's wrong, or invade the privacy of that person. They do this, not so much because they believe that the person's spiritual life is at stake. They do it because they fear being "abandoned" by the person trying to leave. Does this make any sense?

Long before JW's ever came to our home back in 1959, my mom was an emotional basket case. She was in a very unhappy, unfulfilled marriage, but she was a good woman. She tried really hard and got beaten down over and over. But, she was "used" to existing like that. She passed that behavior, that acceptance on to her children. JW's gave her the attention she needed, but she settled into a "similar marriage" with them. We just followed along as obedient children.

She was afraid of loneliness and had to control us. She made all our decisions for us, even up to the time I left at age 21. The clothes I wore, the style of my hair. She read ALL my mail, before I got home from school/work/service. She had to control us, because dad controlled her and everything else. They didn't drink. They didn't do drugs. And, they thought we had a "normal" family. All of us kids were suffocating. To have the JW's settle in and dictate more control through the organization and our mother, we had no boundaries at all.

When we finally see things in the light, we are hurt, angry, frustrated. We naturally rebel. Sometimes we hurt ourselves further because we don't get healed first before we try to "make things right again". We literally have to re-train ourselves and our thought processes. We have to begin again and that is no easy task. That's why this common bond in places like this Forum do so much good.

I think about all of you on here. I think about the heartache and pain that we all share as this common bond; but I also see the courage, hope, strength, comfort, love, joy and peace that abounds as well. Most all of us are adults. Look how long it took us to "fix" ourselves. And the work still continues.

Children have no choices. Parents decide for them. They are at the mercy of their parents, if their parents don't make wise choices. And, if parents are being damaged by the WBTS, then it trickles right on down. So, that's why there are a heck of a lot of folks out here that are adults trying to fix themselves. They are trying to repair relationships with mates, children, family and friends. Stuff that has been engrained into their minds from tender years and on through the JW experience.

My brother said to me recently that he hasn't met a "normal" family. He doesn't think it's possible or that it could ever exist. Perhaps our society has damaged itself so badly through the years, even without JW influence, that the family unit is falling apart. Add the JW influence, and the mess is only compounded.

Parents bear a great responsibility to try and get it right with themselves. They need to allow their children the freedom to choose. Faith in a peticular belief cannot be "forced". And, what good is attending all the meetings, and "doing" all the right things, if you don't feel it in your heart?

This means, that "children", should not be getting baptized. They should not be told that they will die a horrible death at Armegeddon if they aren't baptised. I've seen posts on here where the person indicates that they have been baptised as young as eleven! That is outrageous.This type of control and removal of bounderies is the practice of cults. Personal choice is gone. Listening to one's own conscience, gone. Inability to make simple choices--even when "it's ok", is gone.......... We've had a lot taken from us.

N ow we are getting it back.

One day at a time, in love.

Karen/Sentinel

Edited by - Sentinel on 24 July 2002 18:29:54

Satanus

Excellent, gary.

Nathan

Right on. I don't care either what the wt thinks of this site. I don't care much about what those who are concerned about what dubs think, think of this site. By dragging in the wt comparison, they are also bringing in wt authority. Since most of us have dumped or are in the process of ridding ourselves of wt authority, why bring it back?

SS

DanTheMan

The WT is the very definition of religious abuse

Franc, I enjoyed your comments. There is one elder I used to know who was a pioneer and sub circuit overseer, a Society Man if there was one. His friendly manner masked a vicious contempt of males in the congos he viewed as weak. "WHY AREN'T YOU REACHING OUT????" was his platform mantra. If I ever see him, and I have the nerve, he's going to get a big "FUCK YOU" from me. Or at least the bird. Uneducated car detailer judging my spirituality - gotta love that borg.

Dia

What is all that door-to-door rehearsal about anyway?

Lots and lots of practice in how to NOT respect someone, how to NOT take a person's word for anything....how to ignore people.....how to walk all over their communications to you...learning how to assume that you know better than they do what is best for them and how to IMPOSE yourself on them. How to subvert them, cajole and manipulate them.

For Jehovah's sake, of course.

garybuss

Thanks Nathan, libra, Cowboy, SS, All

The conflict starts when I leave the group and get some recovery behind me. Now when I associate with a Witness, they are still back there in the behavior of dispensing of personal boundaries and invariably they will step over one of my lines and now I will notice it. I notice it and I do not accept it anymore.

One of my JW mother's favorite violations of my boundaries occurred when she would talk about people who were not there, gossip. The first time I stopped her when she was trying to gossip to me about someone she just looked at me and said, "What's wrong with you?".

The Witnesses are so conditioned to the elimination of personal boundaries that they do not even know they are doing it. That is one reason they are disliked by the world so much. They insult people without even being aware they are doing it. They think they are hated because of God or Jesus. The truth is they just piss people off.

gb

COMF

Nice to see you posting again, Gary. And something of substance, too! Got me beat on that one. :)

personal boundaries

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