Does Ray Franz owe us an apology? (page 2)

voltaire

I think the tone of Ray's book is that of a man who was ashamed of what he was involved in. I personally think he has set an excellent example for all of us. He did what he thought was right, what he was taught to do. When he realized what was going on behind the scenes, his conscience wouldn't allow him to go on. So, at great personal cost, he left and told the world his story. What a man!

outoftheorg

Well Sleepy and others this is a question I have pondered. I as an elder for 5 yrs tried to be understanding and not dogmatic. However I did promote the wbts teachings. From that aspect I and all others carry some responsibility and for myself a measure of guilt.

I have read where others consider it a situation of followers of followers and victims of victims all struggling under a cults influence. My largest guilt and shame comes from seeing now what effect all of this had on my children. Some are out of the borg and some still in it. I see the damage to all of them from their exposure to wbts.

I think Ray Franz has done a lot to expose the wbts for what it is and to direct people to an acceptable practice of religion on an individual basis. I agree that he does also feel some guilt and sadness at his part in all this.

For those like Ray and others that have pointed out what needed to be exposed and no longer promote the cult and are willing to help those just leaving the borg, I believe we should not hold onto any bad feelings for them or give them any more grief over their past association with the wbts.

I do believe that Ray and the others who grew up in the borg or got sucked into it later in life are also victims suffering from their exposure to the cult.

I believe that those who vigorously and arrogantly promote and defend the wbts in its present actions are the ones on which we should focus our energies and anger.

maximumflash

Edited by - maximumflash on 1 August 2002 11:54:19

OUTLAW

Do`s Ray owe us an apology?..For what?..He followed the instructions of WBTS same as the rest of us..When he could no longer stand what was going on he left,just like the rest of us.With one exception,he let us know what was going on at the top with his book CC.How many people has that book helped?More than a few I`d say.He dosen`t owe us an apology,we owe him a great big THANK YOU RAY FRANZ!! ...OUTLAW

Cassiline

Have you forgiven him?~~ sleepy

The way you word your post and this specific question above concerning Ray Franz leads me to believe you feel an apology necessary.

I find your post tasteless and inflammatory, MO. You go on to answer another question posed to you;

If you believe that Ray Franz owes you/us an apology, do you also believe that you owe an apology to everyone that you 'preached' to when you were a witness?~~siegswife

Yes of course.~~sleepy

Yet offer no apology whatsoever to anyone. Who knows how many you may have preached to? Who may have listened, how many generations your preaching efforts may effect over the next hundred years or so? How many Sleepy may you be responsible for "killing" and allowing to be molested in the past and future?

Then you ignore, or should I say fail to comment on JanH's post that links you to a site where Ray Franz states, " I am ashamed of what I took part in." He may not say here "I am sorry". But who knows what he has said and to whom? I think his books and efforts to "out" the Truth says volumes.

Why, did you feel the need to single out Ray Franz? Why not just a question in general about no one in particular? And include your apologies if you feel the need to do so?

Edited to add, while posting this (my response) you added an apology in a follow up, Thank you.

Edited by - cassiline on 1 August 2002 12:3:1

zenpunk

Ray has more than made up for his time as a GB member by writing Crisis of Conscience. That book has changed many more lives for the better...

sleepy

Cassline you've gone of the handle a bit there.I was asking a question not making accusations .There is a difference.

Also I feel you've totally missed the point.

Read this again,

"Have you forgiven him?

If we do hold him partly responable, how do you feel about your part in preaching the message of jehovahs witnesses, are you responsable for other peoples deaths and messed up lives,by say, taking a stand on blood and giving talks praising pioneering ;and encouraging others to do the same?"

The point being if we blame others what about us?

Can someone please explain why it is wrong to ask this question.

Edited by - sleepy on 1 August 2002 12:4:56

JAVA

I don't post very much, but want to reply to this thread. Like most of us, I'm sure Raymond believed the Watchtower Society was God's only true religion. When he and a hand full at Brooklyn started to see some major problems with the Tower's theology, he didn't hide behind the comfortable walls of the Governing Body and live out his life as a junior Pope. He is the only member of the Governing Body to exit, and expose the problems within. The "Does Ray Franz owe us an apology" question seems to overlook his actions, and the countless people he has helped in the past 20 years. I believe his actions speak louder than saying, "I'm sorry." Of course he's sorry for the harm done by the Watchtower Society--and he did something about it! I'll take that over easy words anyday.

Gopher

The Bible itself contains a rather straightforward answer to this question.

Acts 17:30.

God has overlooked the times of such ignorance, yet now he is telling mankind that they should all everywhere repent.

Ignorance can be forgiven, and Ray has effectively asked that his blind followership of the Watchtower be forgiven based on what he found out. No further flagellation of this fine man was ever needed. He did his own "mea culpa".

This post reminds me, no real joy in life is to be found by continual faultfinding. Rather look for the good in the people around you.

SYN

Ray Franz's books have helped many people to see the Truth about the Troof - this is why he doesn't need to apologize.

Does Ray Franz owe us an apology?

Share this