"We Already Forgive Him" - What Does That Mean? (page 3)

sparrowdown

Meaningless? As far as justice is concerned, yeah, probably.

cofty

So what if the court offered the christian relatives the chance to put the murderer to death?

Could they kill him while claiming they are only punishing his actions and not him personally?

Of course being eaten up with anger and lust for revenge is harmful. I would try to avoid that for my own benefit but that would have nothing to do with the criminal.

Would I want somebody who murdered my family to be forgiven by the court - who is acting in our place? Would I hell!

I don't think christians know what they mean. Talk is cheap.

GrreatTeacher

I think this "I've forgiven him" stuff is bullshit and it irritates me when I hear it trotted out as if it's some enlightened Christian necessity. Jesus forgave us so we must forgive others.

Why would you ever forgive someone who has deliberately done an evil thing without remorse? People like that haven't asked for and don't want anyone's forgiveness. So why give it to them?

To follow the Christian model, one would have to ask for forgiveness of sins, just as Christians must ask Jesus for forgiveness of sins, or, as they say, accept the gift of forgiveness that He is offering.

It's not automatic, even according to themselves if they are truly following the model set by Jesus in the way he provides forgiveness of sins to Christians.

cofty

In our society we have given the monopoly on violence to the state.

Societies that function on personal revenge and honour killing have frightening levels of violence.

We have grown past that. Despite our feelings, we know it's better for everybody if the state acts on our behalf when we are wronged. That is why murder cases in the UK are tried as "Regina versus ..."

I think christians find it very convenient to separate personal desire for revenge and legal vengence. In other words, as long as we are sure the state are going to punish the criminal to the fullest extent we are free to talk about forgiveness.

sparrowdown

"Christian forgiveness" like "christian love" is conditional and mandatory for your own salvation, so how genuine can it be?

sunny23

Since forgiveness has different meanings, you technically could forgive someone (not be angry at them emotionally) while punishing them, or sentencing them to prison/death. The same Justice can be served by someone exhibiting emotions and by someone not.

As far as the hypothetical question of what would the forgiving Christians do if given the reigns of judicial power? Who cares, lets hope their ideologies are not too strong in those who actually decide these cases and justice is served fully here.

cofty

Since forgiveness has different meanings, you technically could forgive someone (not be angry at them emotionally) while punishing them, or sentencing them to prison/death.

So a christian could judicially kill the criminal as long as it was done in cold blood?

sunny23

Old Testament style? Yea sure.

sunny23

A "christian could" do anything. By what are we basing christian actions? Just modern day new testament /new covenant christians? If so then technicall a Christian should allow "cesar" to uphold law and justice for society, but allow God to exact punishment in some other sense and means.

GrreatTeacher

That separation would be a problem for reconstructionists who are trying to infiltrate Caeser and "re"create a christian nation.

"We Already Forgive Him" - What Does That Mean?

Share this