"We Already Forgive Him" - What Does That Mean?

by cofty 111 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  Giordano

  One aspect of what "forgiving" means is the history of this particular church.

  It was an active participant in non violent resistance going back to the 19th century. Slavery, the underground railroad, the Civil war, the Jim Crow era, segregation and the civil rights movement of the 1950's and 60's. They have seen it and lived it. They survived it all with the only weapons they had....... forgiveness and non violence....... It was a turning of the cheek not as much influenced by scripture but the political reality that had to be faced and ultimately faced down.

  "We already forgive him" simply means, at least to me.......... that this community will mourn their loss but will not stumble from the journey they have been on. They will continue to build up their community......... not burn it down.
• 

  done4good

  Forgiveness is about self-preservation more than anything else. It likely is a big reason why religion has the draw for many that it does, as religion usually builds this concept into its dogma. All part and parcel with a predefined moral code, so many look for in religious systems. It works great until it doesn't.
  

  There is a difference between "forgiveness", and accepting things and moving on. The latter requires a level of self-actualization that most people do not have, so forgiveness comforts them.

  I prefer to accept the damage and move on.

  Oh, and society has no use for people like Dylann Roof.
  

  d4g
  
• 

  HB

  A friend discovered after 25 years of marriage, that her husband had been cheating on her. After a brief separation of six months, once his adulterous affair was over, she told all her family, friends and acquaintances that she "forgave" him and he moved back in. Everyone said how noble she was to forgive.

  But just a few of us who know the couple well are aware that In reality she hasn't forgiven him in her heart and feels justified in exacting revenge in hidden and subtle ways. He pays daily for his past actions and his life is now not his own. In public she puts on a pious face of togetherness but in private she gives him hell. He is long-suffering and accepts the way he is treated.

  The wife gained much public praise for her 'selfless' forgiveness but in actual fact I know it was not authentic. I believe she did care about him and I'm glad they got back together. But it was also in her interest financially and for other practical reasons to stay married.

  I don't like to be cynical particularly about grieving individuals, but I would be very interested to know whether, when they are not in the public limelight, the children who have forgiven the killer of their parents consistently also forgive others in all circumstances.

  I hope it is genuine and I'm sure the admiration and commendation they have been given, particularly from Christians for bearing witness to their faith, is a comfort, but seeing the hypocrisy of my friend's insincere forgiveness of her husband has made me question if true and genuine forgiveness particularly at the time of the offence, is humanly possible. (I guess those with Asperger's or autism might outwardly appear to achieve it.)

  Christians will say that God gives them the strength to forgive, but to me that's just a delusion.
• 

  cofty

  I don't think a parent saying, "I forgive you" and then punishing a child is a hypocrite.

  That is a total contradiction.

  What would "I don't forgive you" look like?

  Jesus said "if he repents, forgive him"

  This thread has nothing at all to do with judging that is a red herring.

  
  
• 

  talesin

  This is all so tiresome. Hasn't this horse been beat to death?
  
  *yawns*
• 

  cofty

  Once again your only contribution to the conversation is to tell everybody that you personally have no interest in the subject. That is what is tiresome.
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  bafh

  This thread has nothing at all to do with judging that is a red herring.

  Oh, I beg to differ. Your whole argument is that the relatives of the victims are lying or being inauthentic because they say they have forgiven the killer when you can't imagine yourself doing it.

  
  This is may not have been your original question - but it is related. You have no right to judge another person especially when you do not know them.

  
  And just because others can forgive in situations you would not, does not make their choice invalid or wrong or make your choice some how more right.
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  cofty

  I never once said they were lying. Stop changing the subject.

  I have asked what it means for somebody to say that they "forgive" a mass murderer who has just killed members of their family a few hours earlier. The murderer in no way regrets their actions and wishes they could have killed even more victims.

  What does forgiveness mean in this context and is it even a virtue.
• 

  bafh

  cofty
  I think what has irritated me about this is that it isn't authentic.
  Christians respond to events the way they are expected to react. JWs do the same.
  Here we have adult children of a murder victim saying they already forgive the murderer of their parent less than 24 hours after the event. The murderer is still filled with hate and has expressed no regret.
  There is nothing authentic about this. It is a pre-programmed reaction. They are performing for the watching world.

  What right do you have to judge what is or is not real or authentic for another person?

  
  
• 

  cofty

  I have every right to ask a reasonable and sensible question and to want to explore the subject of what christians mean by forgiveness.

  It is obvious you have no desire or intention of engaging with the topic.

  No problem.