US Empire

by Defender 19 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Francois

  Defender, what are you defending? Seems like an indefensible position to me. The US has never demonstrated any imperial ambitions.

  What we have done is make the world safer for freedom. And we are now engaged with most of the western democracies in a great test to determine if freedom and democracy will endure, or if we will on this planet be forced into yet another thousand-year, religion-dominated interregnum of wisdom. The last Dark Age was sponsored by the Catholic Church. Will be next see a Dark Age sponsored by the Islamic?

  And what is it with which you think that freedom and democracy requires "balancing"? Is it necessary that the US and its power be balanced with a state representing pure evil as an actual fact of existence on this planet? From what does the world require protection insofar as that concerns the United States?

  Do you likewise believe, on a personal level, that human beings must experience actual evil in order to understand the benefits and superiority of the contrasting good? Or is the potential for evil instructive and enlightening enough to motivate to the good without a need to know evil as a direct experience in our own lives? These macro- and micro- concepts beg an answer from you.

  You have said, "What we have here is pure geopolitical situation where one power, lets call it "X", has become too powerful to the discomfort of others, including former allies." Can you back up that assertion? Or is it your opinion only? Who is it that feels this "discomfort"?

  And for Christ's sake, why would any sane person want to see the world once again teetering on the brink of utter annihilation via another arms race merely in the service of your "balance"?

  We now live in an age in which even the Chinese Communists back away from doctrinaire communism. Albiet China, who has an enormous border with the former Soviet Union, is not arming itself for a land war, but is buying naval armaments and other materiel as fast as it can. This is quite ominous. What, besides the United States Pacific Fleet, requires the Chicoms to prepare thus for naval warfare? Will China destroy the world in order to reassert itself over Taiwan? One would hope not.

  And do you not find it peculiar that Osama ben Laden, in his affront to world peace and his attack on capitalism and freedom, finances his cowardice with the proceeds of the very capitalism he opposes? Does not Islam reject hypocrisy as does every other spiritually mature religious philosophy on the planet?

  And others have already made the cogent point that most, virtually all, world powers beginning with Babylon have had no such "balance" as you seem to feel is currently required.

  I'm certain that I'm not alone in wishing to hear more from you about the position you take in this thread. You've raised an important issue, whether I agree with your viewpoint and outlook or not, and I think you deserve the space and the time and the patience from all in which you can express yourself. And to respond to opposing points of view.

  Will you oblige us?

  -francois
• 

  metatron

  The reality is that the world is blessed to have an immigrant
  filled nation as superpower - or would you prefer China?

  Europe is whining about the power of the U.S. because it has
  no birthrate to speak of and doesn't want to spend money on
  the military that it needs for nursing homes.

  Frankly, I wish the US could turn isolationist and stay out of
  the rest of the world but that isn't practical. Somebody will
  have to overcome Islamic fundamentalism if the human race is
  to have any hope. Maybe after that....

  metatron
• 

  Defender

  Saint Satan

  "Rome had no counter balance. It just kind of broke apart"

  To a certain degree this is right. But Rome was not built in a day. From its early inception, it had to contend with one rival after another. Only after it had conquered most of the known world at the time then there were not many countries left to form an alliance to counter balance. The USA does not enjoy this luxury. Despite this, Rome succumbed to numerous and incessant attacks from Germanic tribes in the North and Scithians from the North East, not to mention a daring invasion by Genghis Khan from the Far East. All these attacks and other factors served as a counter balance of sorts that eventaully split the empire and broke it apart.
• 

  proplog2

  I think the USA is the only possible candidate for the Harlot in Revelation. I've felt that way since 1980. I've analyzed this orientation on my web-site. Click on the Globe at left.

  The USA behaves exactly like a prostitute. The elites in the various nations get immediate satisfaction from giving her their natural resources and access to cheap labor. This satisfaction in the form of short term wealth mainly benefits the deal makers. The people of those countries receive crumbs that fall from the table. The USA perpetuates the worst forms of government as long as they can benefit. Look at the Saudis. They are a theocratic monarchy that represents the antithesis of a constitutional democracy. Ben Laden hates the Saud family more than he hates the USA. Anyone who defends the American record is ignorant of our history. Foreign aid is merely a prop for illegetimate governments. Marcos, Somosa, Batista, Shah of Iran, etc. etc.

  Why does the USA give most favored nation status to China - one of the most repressive governments on Earth.
• 

  Satanus

  Defender

  The germanic invaders were actually absorbed into the roman system. So, while they inflicted a lot of damage on rome, they were conquered the soft way. Some popes even were germanic. I don't remember that much about genghis kan's wars w rome. He didn't last long anyway. Scythians, you can fill me in if you want.

  Actually, rome fell in the 4rth century, or there abouts. Yet, due to patriotism, their legal system, and christianity, it continued to grow for at least another 1000 yrs. It conquored and unified europe w these two tools. These may have been new techniques used in new ways. In some ways, the roman empire was a miracle of innovation. Innovation, or innovism as one person calls it, is underrated by doom and gloomers like youknow. They are straight line thinkers. They think things have to keep going at a steady pace from where they are now, the way they have in the recent past. This doesn't happen. Brilliant people try new strategies to cope with economic and cultural problems. I wouldn't be surprised if the US pulls a few of these out of the hat in the next few decades.
• 

  Satanus

  For empires to hold together, they need glue. For rome, it was mainly power and religion. If we look at the ideology that the us exports, that may be the binding power between it and its allies. That also, i think, puts it in the category of an empire. People may not agree w this because they are themselves caught in the glue.

  The american ideology seems to be consumerism, freedom, money, hollywood... If any feel like adding or correcting this list, feel free. I'm trying to make an analasys. I don't think of any of these things as necesarily bad. I'm not bashing america for this.

  SS
• 

  Crazy151drinker

  The US has never demonstrated any imperial ambitions.

  Fracios, I will have to disagree with you here. For many years we had the 'Carry a big stick' policy. We took over the carribean, the phillipines, hawaii, etc..etc.... now we just install new leadership (so much easier!).

  Proplog2:

  We also help alot of countries. We helped destroy Hitler. We fought Stalin. We fought the Opressive Chinese. Hardly Harlot activities.
• 

  proplog2

  Crazy:

  The United States exercises the feminine imperialism. They dominate primarily with economic weapons. They went to war against Hitler not so much out of fear of Hitler but out of fear that the Communist Soviets would be the only victors. The US wanted to be at the table when the new Europe was drawn.

  What makes you think a whore can't scrap.
• 

  Crazy151drinker

  We dominated out of fear of Nuclear War for 50 years! Economics is just better business. Even though we have a vast GNP, we do not control the world. Historicly, many countries have had far greater dominance than the U.S.
• 

  Francois

  151, your idea of empire must be different than mine. Last I looked, we didn't own anything in the Carib., Phillipines, or anywhere else. Um, empires tend to keep their stuff.

  ft