by restorebeauty 14 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
Hey everyone,
I'm new here. I have never been a jehovah's witness, but I've dated someone who is and I have a few clients who are.
My comment and question is this, I've noticed that witnesses who aren't even active get very defensive when asked a question or a comment is made about the religion.
Did any of you find yourself before you left getting this way when people asked you about the religion.
restorebeauty
I left because I didn't believe in it.
Years later, I flew off the handle because someone said the JWs 'don't believe in Jesus'.I mean I went ballistic defending them!
The person just looked at me and quietly said, "Why are you so upset?"
I continued on my rant and they quietly said again, "But why are you so UPSET?"
I stopped and thought about it. I had no idea why I was flipping out about this subject.
He said he noticed all the JWS he talked to get very upset and excited defending the religion...just like I did.
He wondered why? That gave me somthing to chew on for a while.
My theory is: This is what JWs are TRAINED to do: To defend the JW beliefs at all cost. To never let a question go un-answered. To convince everyone that JWs are right. They really believe they can convince ANYBODY if they will listen .
(If a person does not believe what the JWs say, the JWs often say it is because 'the person wouldn't listen.')
If the person is listening, and still not being convinced, a JW can become very upset, because this is not how it is supposed to work! They should be agreeing with the JW because JWs are RIGHT! right? :)
That training (brainwashing?) can hold over long after a person leaves the JWs, even when they don't believe in them anymore!
Weird, hu?
-LisaBObeesa
Hi, welcome.
I think I understand what you are talking about. I know that I often felt defensive about most anything doctrine related. I now understand that that was because it all hangs on such thin support, and deep down, I knew that, for what ever reason, I did not have the support to argue my beliefs. Of course, back then, I blamed myself for not doing enough research to have that support. Now I've done the research, and I know the support does not exist.
Still, I think I hid my defensiveness pretty well, or managed to steer the conversation away from what I was uncomfortable with.
As you might imagine, inactive JW's are often the worst about this, as they feel defensive about not really knowing the doctrine inside and out, AND defensive about not living what they believe.
What business are you in that has so many witness clients? What was your BF's (made an assumption here) status?
Whilst I was a JW the organisation became my family - my brothers, my sisters - and I learnt to defend them just as I would if I had a real family. Often within families it's OK for someone on the inside to say something derogative about a relative, but look out if it is an outsider making the very same remark! Suddenly the ranks close and the downgraded relative is elavated to a position they did not formerly occupy.
Such family ties run deep, and although I have been away from my former 'brothers and sisters' for some time, I still find myself defending their beliefs - even when I know they are wrong.
Coupled with this, is the knowledge that at one time I too believed what they hold to be true. I know 'where they are coming from', I understand their position.
sixonine,
To answer your question, I am a makeup artist, i used to work with a witness who was getting married and I did her makeup for her wedding. Thereafter she would contact me for future events and introduced me to her "sisters".
They were nice for the most part, but when they saw that I wasn't interested in being a jw they got very cold. Also, I noticed that if you didn't talk about THEIR religion, there was nothing to talk about.
As far as the guy I still date. He is inactive, however he has been to every holiday function with me including taking me away for my birthday. (singing the song and all....go figure) I've noticed with him, that he is all things to all people. Doesn't really stand up for what he believes.
as
Hi Restore,
Nice to meet you. I'm not JW either. As a "worldly" person this defensiveness adds one more element of confusion in trying to have a serious discussion about religion with someone who is ....how should I put it.....a wavering JW.
The young man I know would complain about the way he has been raised and state how desperately unhappy he has been not to be allowed to do certain ordinary things, like play in an organized competitive hockey league or visit with school friends after school hours. He stated that he thought there was nothing wrong with doing those things. Yet, he would also say that the best kids are JW, and that is still the best way to raise children. If I tried to get him to think about what he was saying, and how it really didn't follow logically, he would just shut down.
It must be a giant mental leap to be able to think critically and logically about the teachings of the Watchtower.
I would pay $500 bucks to see any dub sing happy birthday.
The comment about the ones who are wavering being the most defensive is spot on. I recently spoke with a girl who didn't know I was an ex. It came out that her mom was a JW and that she at 22 had left (not baptized) because she had no friends etc.
I made a comment to get things going about how rich the Society was. She was stunned and said "oh no... it's not to make money or anything like that." I ended up letting a few stats out and she started to deny them, but you could tell she didn't know enough to either defend her wavering faith or to be knowledgable enough to know the facts. I let it slip about Dateline etc and she was quite stunned. I made comments about them being nice people, but "too bad they don't know the facts about their history", to which she stammered to defend, but realized she knew nothing of it either.
It bothered me that she defended them so much, but she was ostracized for being fat and unpopular in her words... she craved acceptance, but even they wouldn't take her.
It made me realize that even for me 5 or 6 years ago after being DFed, I would still defend JWs to an extent as far as "not being a cult" and being misrepresented in the media etc. It took time for that to fade and to be more balanced about it. I will still defend them when people have idiotic statements to make, but will equally expose the real problems.
happy birthday dear butalbee.
happy birthday to you
happy birday dear butlbee
happy birdthday to you.....and the home of the brave..
---mike musto 12 inch extended dub mix..
now give me by 500
I was somewhat defensive when I was still a new JW. As the years elapsed any defensiveness passed. What sometimes seems like defensiveness is misunderstood by non-JWs. A JW is trained to 'market' their religion, and often feel that non-JWs simply don't understand. So, the average JW attempts to explain their beliefs as they market them ... and this can seem both too assertive and defensive to the listener.
The continuous weekly training JWs get teach them to know how to defend their faith, as they expect some attack. They are taught, likewise, to go door-to-door to teach and market their beliefs ... this training is from their combined Service Meeting (sale meeting) and Thewocratic Ministry School (public speaking meeting) ... it is a lifelong process that is so well ingrained in JWs that they develope automatic canned repsonses to non-JWs ...
It takes a crisis to get them to relax and lighten up, and think for themselves.
