by sunshineToo 34 Replies latest jw friends
Have you read the JW Zone thread on Bill Bowen?
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=33978&site=3
I would like to hear your opinion. If you have a chance, what would you say to the JW Zone members?
Oh, by the way don't miss their ( JW Zone ) thread on the Canadian girl, too.
Already read it. Just more JW apologist crappola let's do nothing to bring reproach protect the organization at all costs wait on Jah attack the messenger bullshit.
I ashamed to believe that I was once so deluded.
What I have come to appreciate from my study of how the Anglo-American political system of things is run, is that in the process of political debate the attempt is always made to control the agenda by focusing the debate to two phony alternatives, and in so doing more plausable solutions are forced outside the realm of acceptable thought. That's the way I see this issue shaping up. It's not Bill Bowen verses the Watchtower. The question of fatih presented to Jehovah's Witnesses should not be framed in terms of pro-Watchtower or Anti-Watchtower.
The way I see it both sides are wrong. Not that I am unsympathetic to the Silentlambs movement, the victims of abuse that is, aside from the fact that as I have mentioned previously, the Silentlambs are being exploited by apostates to further their ends, but it seems to me that there is not a whole lot that can be done. Like I have said before, tinkering with Watchtower policies, or calling the cops, or whatever, is not going to stop other beastial men from raping and molesting children. If men can fix what is wrong with the Watchtower, then it is a mere human organization after all. Christ foretold that at some point we would experience an increasing of lawlessness that would cause the love of the greater number to cool off. It seems to me that that prophecy applies to the organization. Certainly child abuse is an extreme form of lawlessness. But, the solution is that Christ and his angels are charged with removing all things that cause stumbling and all persons doing lawlessness. That indicates that we need a super human solution to the evils afflicting us.
The other side of the coin is that the Watchtower has a lot to answer for, and the way child abuse has been handled is only a very small part of what ails the Watchtower Society. As one of Jehovah's Witnesses I fully expect and anticipate Jehovah's judgment to lay the Watchtower low. I don't know exactly how that's going to happen, but I suspect that when once global warfare erupts, possibly as soon as the next few months judging by the increasing intensity of the beating of the war drums, that the financial system will crash, which will make it virtually immpossible for the Watchtower to carry on its large scale printing operations. Then each Witness will have to come to terms with the real issue, and not the phony ones presented before us by the Devil. The real issue will be whether we have faith in Jehovah God even when everything seems to be going wrong, when what we have been taught about the future appears to be all wrong. That's when we will have to step up and provide an answer to Christ's somewhat disturbing question that he posed, saying: "When the Son of man arrives, will he really find the faith on the earth?" I don't think the Watchtower is going to be there to offer much encouragment to the faithful to help them through, and I am sure Bill Bowen won't be anywhere to be found when Jehovah drops the hammer. / You Know
APOSTATE
the Silentlambs are being exploited by apostates to further their ends, but it seems to me that there is not a whole lot that can be done. Like I have said before, tinkering with Watchtower policies, or calling the cops, or whatever, is not going to stop other beastial men from raping and molesting children
I will translate:
Nothing is going to change. People are still going to abuse children so why do anything about it? Whenever the WT tries to do something right, the Silent lambs and other Apostates sabatoge it with their satanic motives. We must stop all reports of abuse and cover it up. The WT is not bad, its the people. We must sit on our asses and wait for God to fix it. Even though he gave us a brain and rules to live by (thus enabling us to make our own decisions) we should still not doing anything about this problem or even admit there is a problem. Now, being that I am one of the chosen, I do have a possible solution, but since I disagree with official policy I am an Apostate so my solution is thus invalid. In light of this new light I shall stick my head in the sand.
.............once I have extracted it from my .............
Edited by - Ice Blue on 7 August 2002 18:7:24
Interesting point you made YK about the society having many problems, not just involving child abuse. I'm glad you are free to discuss your views on the matter here with us as you would have no outlet for this kind of thinking in the congregation.
That being said, I was wondering if you felt that this "lawlessness" within the organization has only been a recent epidemic or is it as old as the organization itself?
Also, if you took away the society from Witnesses, where would their faith come from? SInce the society teaches that you can only have faith by being constantly involved with the organization then how could a witness have faith when there is no organization telling them what to believe? Wouldn't they become like the many apostates who were disfellowshipped by the organization for believing that their faith is between them and God and not through an earthly organization?
And then again, what if the Watchtower isn't "laid low", what then?
First of all, I want all of the "ApostoCrews" ( thanks, SYN, for creating the word ) to refrain from name callings and use of bad languages. Let's try to run this thread as rational as possible.
You Know, first I thank you for your reply. You mentioned:
The way I see it both sides are wrong. Not that I am unsympathetic to the Silentlambs movement, the victims of abuse that is, aside from the fact that as I have mentioned previously, the Silentlambs are being exploited by apostates to further their ends, but it seems to me that there is not a whole lot that can be done. Like I have said before, tinkering with Watchtower policies, or calling the cops, or whatever, is not going to stop other beastial men from raping and molesting children.
If these "apostates" didn't make this much of publicity, do you think anyone would pay attention to the molestation policy which I didn't know until I saw Dateline. Even some of the elders in my former congregation didn't know about this until I asked them. A child is molested. She didn't have two eye witnesses, and she was sent back to her molester for more abuse. What was a Christian supposed to do? Just let it go until she gets molested to death ( possibly by suicide)? Aren't we supposed to help the ones in need? Isn't that what Christ taught us in the Bible? Isn't it why the JWs go door to door - to help the neighbors? What was I supposed to do as a good Christian if I knew a child who had been molested by a jw? What would you do if she was your child and she couldn't provide 2 witnesses who saw her being molested?
The other side of the coin is that the Watchtower has a lot to answer for, and the way child abuse has been handled is only a very small part of what ails the Watchtower Society. As one of Jehovah's Witnesses I fully expect and anticipate Jehovah's judgment to lay the Watchtower low. I don't know exactly how that's going to happen, but I suspect that when once global warfare erupts, possibly as soon as the next few months judging by the increasing intensity of the beating of the war drums, that the financial system will crash, which will make it virtually immpossible for the Watchtower to carry on its large scale printing operations. Then each Witness will have to come to terms with the real issue, and not the phony ones presented before us by the Devil. The real issue will be whether we have faith in Jehovah God even when everything seems to be going wrong, when what we have been taught about the future appears to be all wrong. That's when we will have to step up and provide an answer to Christ's somewhat disturbing question that he posed, saying: "When the Son of man arrives, will he really find the faith on the earth?" I don't think the Watchtower is going to be there to offer much encouragment to the faithful to help them through, and I am sure Bill Bowen won't be anywhere to be found when Jehovah drops the hammer. / You Know
I cannot honestly say you are wrong or right because I'm a mere human being who cannot forsee the future. I just hate to see the people being misled, pressured and condamned by the JWs just because they (people like Bill and others) pointed out their (the JWs') dirty laundry. There might be more victims within the organization who might be too young to act alone. Unless the WTS gets punished by the court of law severly, I don't think anyone would pay attention to those hidden victims.
I was so upset when I read the JW Zone thread. I also read their thread on the Canadian girl who needed blood tranfusion. What they said about her father made me so angry. I guess it was his sin for loving his daughter too much.
Sigh......I guess I'm really an apostate. May God have mercy on me. Sorry for making you post on this subject again. I'm relatively new, and I must have missed your posts before.
First Random Task asks
That being said, I was wondering if you felt that this "lawlessness" within the organization has only been a recent epidemic or is it as old as the organization itself?
I think the world is generally becoming more and more corrupt and that a lot of Jehovah's Witnesses have allowed themselves to become hypocritical and corrupt.
Also, if you took away the society from Witnesses, where would their faith come from? SInce the society teaches that you can only have faith by being constantly involved with the organization then how could a witness have faith when there is no organization telling them what to believe?
That's the BIG question. For one thing Jehovah's organization consists only of those who are in a covenant with Jehovah by being anointed. So, that sort of leaves the printing company aspect of it on the outside of things. Sure the anointed have used the Watchtower to get their message out and it has served as a sort of rallying point, but we shouldn't make the mistake of imagining that that automatically means that the Watchtower Society will be there until the end. There's no question about it that the Watchtower has become its own worst enemy in that it has asserted itself into the lives of Jehovah's Witnesses at the expense of Jehovah himself. And that's why it seems that the appropriate way for God to settle that issue and set things right is to make us go it alone. Not only would it humble those who imagine that they are running God's household, but it would also shake out all of the Society men and leave merely a remnant who truly love God. I believe that's what all the prophets are foretelling.
Wouldn't they become like the many apostates who were disfellowshipped by the organization for believing that their faith is between them and God and not through an earthly organization?
The paradox is that Jehovah does have a spiritual organization, and he is, and will yet use it. Israel was Jehovah's organization despite the fact that many of its kings and priests were corrupt. Jehovah just needed to get rid of the dead wood and correct and refine his loyal ones. And that is of course what God did on a few occasions, and it is what he will do again. Just because God has some issues with his people doesn't mean that apostates are right. God is basically going to punish everybody, but he will only show mercy to a relative few who repent.
/ You Know
The way I see it, the people on the outside of the organization don't give a crap about this little insignificant cult. They look at us as a minor joke on a late night comedy monologue and go on with their lives. The world does not revolve around the WT organization as they would like us to believe. The only thing we can do in this age of communications, is keep this pedophile issue in the forefront of any could be converts to this dangerous cult by ways of the television, newspaper and Internet. The WT tactics of old will not work in this age of communications.
Will
Penwell,
Talking about age of communications; I wonder how many people in the world can afford a computer?
