To You Know and other pro-JWs who are posting here

by sunshineToo 34 Replies latest jw friends

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  YoursChelbie

  Well, you cleverly managed to dodge my accusation of setting yourself in the place of God and judge people. Very manly of you little brother Bobby! So typical of self righteous "anointed" people LOL. When will you be a man and face up to the fact that YOU ARE NOT a witness to Jehovah but rather a witness of the Governing Body that you blindly support. Jehovah is not backing the way the issues of the pedophiles and UN are handled. I merely stated that it "doesn't matter what organization you belong to" to be sarcastic because that's how the GB THINK.

  Let me tell you, my wife is plenty steamed too. She has had a couple of family members abused back in the '80s which we dealt with and ran itnto all kinds of crap from the brothers. So, yeah, I get it from all sides.

  I'm not surprised.

  "You get it from all sides"...... poor /youknow.

  YoursChelbie

  Edited by - YoursChelbie on 7 August 2002 19:47:59
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  OUTLAW

  Hey YoursChelbie,YK is not an honest person.You expect too much from the spiritual lepper...OUTLAW
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  You Know

  Yours Chelbie

  Well, you cleverly managed to dodge my accusation of setting yourself in the place of God and judge people. Very manly of you little brother Bobby! So typical of self righteous "anointed" people LOL.

  I didn't know this was about You Know? But, if that's the way you want it, then okay. I can defend my views with the judgments of my God. For example, Titus 3:11 says that any man who "promotes a sect" is "self-condemned." If it is the case that any person who promotes a sect is self-condemned, how much more so does a person come under Jehovah's condemnation who promotes outright revolt? Furthermore, Paul said that we do indeed judge those on the inside of the organization. I can tell you then for a fact, then, that anyone who tears down the work of God will be destroyed themselves.

  But, granted, that Jehovah's full judgments have not been revealed yet, so at this point we can only describe in vague detail how such judgments will yet unfold. That's why Paul wrote the Corinthians, telling them---"Hence do not judge anything before the due time, until the Lord comes, who will both bring the secret things of darkness to light and make the counsels of the hearts manifest, and then each one will have praise come to him from God." It seems, though, that in your case, you are the one who has rushed to judgment prematurely. You have condemned all of Jehovah's Witnesses and have jumped to the absurd and faithless conclusion, yeah, the apostate's verdict, that Jehovah is not aware of what's happening and that He is somehow incapable and unwilling of handling this stuff.

  When will you be a man and face up to the fact that YOU ARE NOT a witness to Jehovah but rather a witness of the Governing Body that you blindly support.

  I have told you some of Jehovah's judicial decisions that will eventually be leveled against his people. That makes me one of Jehovah's Witnesses in a way that very few others are.

  Jehovah is not backing the way the issues of the pedophiles and UN are handled.

  I have never said that he was. On the contrary, check the archives, little sister, you will find that I have written a fair bit on those issues. / You Know

  Edited by - You Know on 7 August 2002 20:58:35
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  You Know

  Since we have a number of new posters, here are a few posts of mine, from the most recent to the oldest, that deal with some of these issues. / You Know

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=32945&site=3

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=32364&site=3

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=28690&site=3

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=28050&site=3

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=21986&site=3

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=14347&site=3

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=9950&site=3
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  hillary_step

  Hi YK,

  Thank you for your answer to my question, I do admire your tenacity and your consistent attempts at defending your views however much I disagree with the basic premise of your theological inclinations.

  Remember though, that there are real people behind the arguments. Jehovah may have instructed his worshipers under the Hebrew regime that his enemies be shown no compassion, but the Christian inclination is surely less defined. The parable of the 'Good Samaritan' shows that even the apostate Samaritans were the heroes of the hour in the eyes of Christ.

  Best regards - HS
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  You Know

  H.S.

  Thank you for your answer to my question, I do admire your tenacity and your consistent attempts at defending your views however much I disagree with the basic premise of your theological inclinations.

  Your welcome, and thank you.

  Remember though, that there are real people behind the arguments. Jehovah may have instructed his worshipers under the Hebrew regime that his enemies be shown no compassion, but the Christian inclination is surely less defined.

  Not really. Paul, for example, confirmed the generally agreed perception of that day regarding Cretains that they were "liars, injurious wild beasts, and unemployed gluttons," which is why he advised Titus to "keep on reproving them with severity." Likewise, Jesus commended the Ephesians because they hated the deeds of the sect of Nicolaus, which Jesus said he also hated. Paul said that he wished that the Judaisers would get themselves emasculated, and so on and so forth. So, the business about loving one's enemies doesn't mean that such are ones are not our enemies. But, If Jehovah's Witnesses are in fact Jehovah's Witnesses in the scriptural sense, and Jehovah's judgments are due to unfold in the way that I have more or less outlined, then that means that, far from being an enemy, I am performing a valuable service for those on this board who may want answers to their doubts and questions. As Paul said, he became weak to those who were weak with the objective of perhaps saving some. / You Know
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  Satanus

  Titus 3:11 says that any man who "promotes a sect" is "self-condemned." If it is the case that any person who promotes a sect is self-condemned, how much more so does a person come under Jehovah's condemnation who promotes outright revolt? Furthermore, Paul said that we do indeed judge those on the inside of the organization.

  Charles russel revolted against a few standard christian doctrines that had been pretty well accepted by most churches. He didn't really promote a new sect, but by his departure from christianity, he set the climate among his followers for a new sect. All it took was rutherford to wrest control from the committee that russel apointed.

  Rutherford did create a new sect, a peculiar cult. As you say, he was selfcondemned. He did this in amny ways. In three of his books, he claimed that the holy spirit's operations on the earth had ceased since the arrival of jesus. He denied gods spirit 3 times. Committing the unforgivable sin three times.

  See Jehovah 1934 pg157, 207

  Preparation 1933 pg196, 237

  Preservation 1932 pg194

  SS
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  You Know

  Charles russel revolted against a few standard christian doctrines that had been pretty well accepted by most churches. He didn't really promote a new sect, but by his departure from christianity, he set the climate among his followers for a new sect.

  Nonsense. The Bible Students were were drawn fro all segments of Christendom, which is without doubt the vestige of the original apostasy form Christianity. / You Know
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  hillary_step

  YK,

  I am performing a valuable service for those on this board who may want answers to their doubts and questions.

  Yes, I understand why you post to this Board, you have always been consistent in your motives.

  Now, you do raise an interesting point reagrding the 'Cretans' and 'the sect of Nicoloaus', and please bear with me because it is associated with the thread.

  Pauls advice to Titus regarding the Grecians from Crete ( actually in the history understood by such as the Hebrew Paul, the Cretans were the Philistines - so hardly surprising that these people were villified by the Jews of the time ) would be an unlawful statement to make in most countries today. In fact YK, I feel confident in saying that even though Paul made this statement you would not publicly agree with it. I am quite sure that you would view it as a disrespectful, sweeping statement. In the C1st it would not have outraged the community to hear the Cretans spoken of in such terms, today it would be viewed, quite rightly, as an outrage. Times change and our views of neccessity change with them. Why do you chose to freeze the spirit of Christianity and hold it in suspended hibernation in the C1st? For example, why does God not choose an Annanias and Sapphira type punishment in the congregations of Jehovah's Witnesses today? Could it be that even the God of the Bible has recognised that the world has changed, but his adherents have not?

  As to the sect of Nicolaus, no information exists as to what his sin was, apart from the fact that he expounded different teachings from the apostles, as you must admit that you expound different views YK, from the Faithful Slave.

  I raised the issue of the Samaritans, who had once been faithful Jehovahs Witnesses and became apostate to the point that most loyal Jehovahs Witnesses at the time of Christ viewed them with absolute disgust. In fact the word Samaritan in the C1st century was a cuss word. Yet the apostate Samaritan was the hero of the parable! Look in the Kings at the history of the Samaritans and how, even though an apostate nation, they treated the Jews with honor when they vanquished them, listening to Jehovahs prophet and sending them home on asses with a full pannier. The history of the Jews treatment of its apostate enemies was the point of the parable of the Good Samaritan. Those who think themselves the friends of God must show this by how they treat their neighbor, their most bitter enemies.

  Best regards - HS

  Edited by - hillary_step on 7 August 2002 22:46:12
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  You Know

  H.S.

  In fact YK, I feel confident in saying that even though Paul made this statement you would not publicly agree with it. I am quite sure that you would view it as a disrespectful, sweeping statement.

  For one thing, Paul was quoting what was the commonly held opinion of the day regarding Cretans, that's why his comments are in quotations. Too, people weren't concerned back then about being politically correct back then.

  Why do you chose to freeze the spirit of Christianity and hold it in suspended hibernation in the C1st? For example, why does God not choose an Annanias and Sapphira type punishment in the congregations of Jehovah's Witnesses today? Could it be that even the God of the Bible has recognised that the world has changed, but his adherents have not?

  You must understand that when Jehovah executed Annanias and his wife it was part of the miraculous way in which God established the fact that He was behind the tiny Christian movement. God performed numerous judgments back then that served as portents, just like he did when he established the physical nation of Israel. However, Jehovah doesn't change with the times. When the time comes for the system to conclude there will be similar judgments from Jehovah only on a much grander scale.

  As to the sect of Nicolaus, no information exists as to what his sin was, apart from the fact that he expounded different teachings from the apostles, as you must admit that you expound different views YK, from the Faithful Slave.

  The point is that Christ HATES the deeds of a particular sect that operates within his congregations. But you would have me believe that Christ has mellowed out now and everybody is cool. LOL

  The history of the Jews treatment of its apostate enemies was the point of the parable of the Good Samaritan. Those who think themselves the friends of God must show this by how they treat their neighbor, their most bitter enemies.

  That's a very clever misapplication of Christ's parable. The point of Jesus' illustration was to move the hearer to show kindness to strangers. You would pervert Jesus' message to have me believe that Christ would have us tolerate the pernicious ideas of those who are opposed to the truth. In the 1st century Christianity's most bitter enemies were the Judaizers. Paul said they were against the interests of all men, not unlike apostate Dubs today. In the book of Galatians, for example, Paul very forcfully tried to move the Galatian Christians to oppose those whom they were tolerating and allowing to defraud them of their faith. Paul even called the Galatains senseless because they allowed themselves to come under the evil influence of those Jews who had apostatized from the truth. Showing kindness to one's enemies doesn't even enter into the picture when it comes to holding firmly to one's faith in the face of apostasy. / You Know