Could people be resurrected?

by sleepy 14 Replies latest jw friends

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  sleepy

  Josephmalik

  "The only problem that I see is a compilation of stupid arguments that have no basis in scripture."

  This comes from a guy that says,"Your depiction if therefore not based upon logical, scriptural thought."

  Joseph I do think it is possible for people to be resuerrected if you had the right technology, i was trying to demonstrait that a person is more than memories and personnality and this would have to be considered too.

  There is nothing wrong about forming a hypothetical situation to test if and idea might or might not work.
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  LittleToe

  So where was Enoch translated to, that he might not see death?

  As for casting doubt on resurrection, it seemed to me that the main doubt was cast on the JW interpretation of it. Of course I could be reading it wrong.

  On the scriptural side, I find Heb.4:12 and 1Thes.5:23 interesting, because they are not easily explained by JW doctrine.
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  JosephMalik

  i was trying to demonstrait that a person is more than memories and personnality and this would have to be considered too.

  Sleepy,

  Sounds like the old WT argument against heart transplants. They taught that you take on the personality of the donor as if the heart was the center of emotions. That lasted for a few years before they canned it. Everything that we are is stored in our minds not our muscles. There is nothing to debate here.

  Joseph
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  sleepy

  JosephMalik Sounds like the old WT argument against heart transplants. They taught that you take on the personality of the donor as if the heart was the center of emotions. That lasted for a few years before they canned it. Everything that we are is stored in our minds not our muscles. There is nothing to debate here.

  Sorry but I think you have missed my point entirely and is the opposite of what you just said.If a resurrection is just a recreation of the makeup of our minds then that does not garentee the continuation of consciousness from the dead person to the new one.You can have identical twins, or a clone of an individual(Sheep anyway)the twins each have their own consciousness even though the brain structure is the same, the clone also has its own consciousness.

  A resurretion is only good if you continue to live consciously in the new body.If it is just a copy of you that is not you,but no one else could tell nor the clone of you, who would have your memories and personnality but would be starting fresh as a conscious being from the point he was made.But you would die and stay dead while a new person take your place.You would never"wake up".

  There has to be a reason why consciousness is localised to individuals , and why my personnal consciousness is not experianced by anyone else.
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  JosephMalik

  So where was Enoch translated to, that he might not see death?

  Little Toe,

  One place we know it could not be as some theologians argue is heaven.

  John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

  And you know of the WT argument that Enoch continued to exist beyond this event. But all that it really takes to do this is to simply allow him to die a natural death. This alone is enough to shield and/or isolate him from the historical events that would soon follow and that would have distressed him so much. In this way he would sleep through all the death and destruction to come. So I have not formed any hard doctrinal stance on this other then the fact that Enoch was shielded from the things that would follow, either by being moved to another place or dying a natural death.

  LT said: As for casting doubt on resurrection, it seemed to me that the main doubt was cast on the JW interpretation of it. Of course I could be reading it wrong.

  Could be but I no longer have any interest in the WT view. Nearly everything I look at is wrong, wrong, wrong. It is really amazing how far from the biblical reality they have strayed. I am sure that they were heavily dependent on secular works and the leadings of a few crackpots that guided them in the beginning and cannot dig themselves out. Their inherent fear of men is what has taken them to this point. Too bad for them.

  LT said: On the scriptural side, I find Heb.4:12 and 1Thes.5:23 interesting, because they are not easily explained by JW doctrine.

  Heb. 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. 13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.

  This is what we are doing now since the faith is not dependent upon organization but upon such truth. And in this special case the words of the author of Hebrews pierced the hearts of those still keeping the Law covenant as a basis for salvation even to penetrating the inner workings of such Law as if reaching to the joints and marrow. Yet, not all such Law keepers were bad, some were simply mislead, mainly by James it seems and some of the Apostles for a time. Such ones would correct their view by depending on Christ for their salvation. So the author continues:

  :14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession. 15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. 16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

  This was the purpose of the book in the first place and this is the context in which the book must be understood. A loose general application may be made but it would not carry the weight as this original purpose for it. Looking towards organizations as the disciples were then looking toward the Law was no longer a function of true faith.

  1 Thess. 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

  All this is simply saying that what we are as disciples in this time matters. We must protect our faith from the corrupting forces around us, (regarding the Law) which of course includes the Watchtower with its Laws as it will make a difference when the time of judgment arrives. The work we do here in enlightening others matters a great deal and is expected. This should be done as if we were picked as a priest from among men just as Christ was picked as our high priest for this purpose.

  1 For every high priest taken from among men is ordained for men in things pertaining to God, that he may offer both gifts and sacrifices for sins:

  But I do not see how this fits in with the resurrection under discussion. The verses make perfect sense if we really believe in scripture and the faith that it proclaims. And they deal with us as individuals on a personal level, not as being controlled by an organization.

  Joseph

  Edited by - JosephMalik on 11 August 2002 8:51:40

  Edited by - JosephMalik on 11 August 2002 8:56:58

  Edited by - JosephMalik on 11 August 2002 9:12:59

  Edited by - JosephMalik on 11 August 2002 15:47:44