A Cult

by Beans 72 Replies latest watchtower bible

Europe

they do have JW schools, although there are (were) so few of them, .

But one had to be a child of a JW to attend.

Sangdigger:
1.Well, not in Europe afaik!
2.And you see, one HAD to be a child of a J.W.They dont want apostates, do they??
Here, we have catholic schools, protestant schools, public schools. muslim schools etc....and EVERYBODY can attend the school he likes!! And that is how it should be to mho!!
Bleep:
They should be applying the abstain from sex until married stage.
They should nothing!!!!! That's your opinion!! People can decide for themselves, cant they? At least when they are not brainwashed!
BTW: I think that's not something to be learned at school, but at home, if you have that opinion.
Quotes

Beans asked me chime in here, so I will. In response to "BLEEP"s detailed, prosaic, TWO LINE POSTS (*AHEM*) let me just say this:
No human leader! We have some kind of a problem with your topic.
A standard from the Bible! No cult would stay with that standard. The worship being a way of life.
They do not isolate themselves. No cult there, thanks for the info.
Here BLEEP is attempting to use the WT's "SRAW MAN" argument to "prove" JWs are not a cult. To save space, I won't re-explain what a STRAW MAN argument is, but you can find a detailed explanation here: http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/ (click on point number 41, "Straw Man").
JWs have no single, individual human leader (i.e. no Swami Rajneesh, no David Koresh). BUT THIS ROLE IS FILLED BY THE GOVERNING BODY. So they have a collective group for their human leadership rather than an individual. This still falls within the definition of potential tell-tale signs for a cult (recall that Heaven's Gate was led by "TI" and "DO" before DO died leaving only TI).
Perhaps BLEEPS replay to my post will be "if that if this is what makes a cult then every single business is a cult." Let me cut that lame argument off at the pass: This point alone does not make a group a cult, but rather it is ONE OF MANY pointers which MAY indicate a group is a cult. I.E. one of many ingredients, none of which is essential. So the score so far: 1 for 1 in favor of being a cult.
A standard from the Bible! No cult would stay with that standard.
The fact is that although not all cults are "religiously motivated" (there are, for example cults of business, money, and greed) the many that are religious, and more specifically nominally Judeo-Christian, CLAIM TO FOLLOW THE BIBLE. They all say the same thing: "We are looking to the bible for instruction, motivation, explanation". Of course, non-cult groups claim to follow the bible too. Either way, that claim means nothing -- in all cases, both cult and non-cult alike, it comes down to following that group's (often unique) interpretation of the bible. The interpretation is provided by the movement's leaders. An even rudimentary study of cults would indicate that claims for guidance and inspiration, or beliefs in general, have nothing to do with classify a group as cultic or non-cultic. Score: still 1 for 1 in favor of JWs being a cult, despite this RED HERRING argument. (Again, you can read about Red Herring here (http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/) at point number 36.
They do not isolate themselves.
At the very least, without breaking a sweat, one could argue that BETHELITES are phyically isolated, living in a closed community with only other members of the group, doing work exclusively for the group. So at the very least, Bethelites clearly have this cultic marker against them. Again however, note two things: (1) Isolation (either physical or mental) is not a de facto requirement for a finding of cult (although it is very common among many cults) and (2) non-bethelite JWs are MENTALLY and EMOTIONALLY isolated from the rest of society. They are told to be "no part of the world" and to "not have close friendship with worldly persons" and they miss many (or should I say most) social situations where friends and family would normally interact (parties, birthdays, Christmas, New Years, etc. etc.). The score now: 2 for 2 in favor of being a cult.
OK, that makes 2 out of 2. Unfortunately we have come to the end of the Reasoning Books' short list of things which make a group a cult, so although we are "batting a thousand" we have at least a dozen more "pitches" to consider.
Entire books have been written about cults and defining them; did you really think that ONE PARAGRAPH would provide a definitive coverage of the topic? Tsk tsk tsk.
~Quotes.
http://Quotes.JehovahsWitnesses.com/
Bleep

A cult definition was shown on this topic. So I understood what the Cult was and it was not my religion at all. It is not a distorted view since it is a way of life for many. It is not just a passing cult but it will stand to time indefinite in Jehovah's New System of things. This system is like the Titanic. You never saw the captain of the Titanic trying to patch up the hole did you?
Crazy151drinker

ScareCrow ie BLEEP
Many people have given you tons of proof and references to more information regarding the WT and its Immoral activites. You however refuse to look into this information. You are a true Drone, not a Christian, but a Drone.
Europe

You however refuse to look into this information.

Indeed Crazy151drinker, typically cult behaviour:
1. Speaking of adversaries or outsiders ( e.g., conservatives, liberals, yuppies, blue-collar, rich, poor) as if they were all the same; characterising them by negative traits only; attributing unflattering motives to them but not to yourself.
2. Lacking interest and information concerning the actual statements and actions of opponents or outsiders.
3. Failing to consider the possible validity of an adversary's point of view.
4. Not taking a critical look at one's own position.
5. Disapproving or rejecting a member of one's group for departing from the group position, devaluing the dissident, regarding him or her as an annoyance or a problem.
6. Feeling self-righteous.
To Bleep:
So I understood what the Cult was and it was not my religion at all.
You understood nothing at all !!!!!!!
Your religion is a cult, a whole cult and nothing but a cult, so help me god!!
Quotes

Bleep:
We are all waiting for you to reply to the points listed in my previous post.
Yes, you did post in this thread following my post.
No, you did not reply to ANY of the points raised in my post. Although I am begin to feel like you are not here to discus, I will take a chance and disect you most recent post. Your most recent post was:
A cult definition was shown on this topic. So I understood what the Cult was and it was not my religion at all. It is not a distorted view since it is a way of life for many. It is not just a passing cult but it will stand to time indefinite in Jehovah's New System of things. This system is like the Titanic. You never saw the captain of the Titanic trying to patch up the hole did you?
A cult definition was show
That is correct. The WT's definition, as published in one of their books (the "Reasoning" book). As I pointed out in my post which you seem to have conveniently ignored, that particular definition is not complete and not comprehensive. It is a "Straw Man" argument, designed to be easily knocked over. However, as I showed, even by their own Straw Man argument, JWs do fit their definition in 2 out of 3 of their points. (And as I pointed out, the remaining point is irrelevant).
Consider this: if the David Koresh was accused of being a cult, don't you think he would deny it, (which is, of course, his right) and attempt to show why Branch Davidians are not a cult? In that event, wouldn't you feel frustrated when a Branch Davidian would "parrot" Koresh's argument to "proove" Davidians are not a cult? If that member ignored counter arguments which tended to indicate that their group is cult-like, wouldn't you agree that they are being rather one-sided?
So I understood what a cult was
Perhaps it is more correct to say you accepted the flawed logic in the Reasoning book before other posters here were kind enough to point out the flaws. Now that I (and others) have given a more complete definition, it is time for you to respond (unless you are being dogmatic, in which case why are you in here? This forum is for discussions, not dogmatism).
It is not a distorted view since it is a way of life for many
There also many millions in the group known as The Unification Church (also known as the Moonies, named after their founder the "Reverend" Sun Myung Moon. (I could go on with other examples, but I won't at this time). You seem to be saying that just because a group is large, has many members, then it can not be a cult. If that is your point, it is incorrect. Membership size has nothing to do with indicating if a group is, or is not, a cult. So your point here is moot.
It is not just a passing cult but it will stand to time indefinite in Jehovah's New System of things.
Only time will answer this point, but again the point is moot. The length of history of a group has nothing to do with determining if a group is a cult. You might as well be saying "we are not a cult because we are headquartered in Brooklyn" or "we are not a cult because the sky is blue" or "we are not a cult because the grass at our kingdom halls is green". My examples are, like yours, ridiculous. They have nothing to do with analysing a cults social interaction and level of control over its members.
This system is like the Titanic. You never saw the captain of the Titanic trying to patch up the hole did you?
I'm having trouble trying to understand what your point is here, and what it has to do with this thread, namely, "are JWs a cult?" Even though it is not related to the thread, this point point still does not make sense on its own merits. Of course the Captain of the Titanic would have patched the hole, if possible. Since patching a hole at sea is not an option, he used the means at his disposal to contain the situation: he sealed the water-tight doors to contain the situation. When it became clear that this protection system was insufficient to contain the damage (due to the size of the hole and the fact that the water tight compartments did not extend to a high enough deck level) evacuation was ordered (lamentably, with insufficient life boats). I suppose you would have preferred that the Captain of the Titanic raise his arms and pray instead of taking action?
Again, the last point is completely off this topic. Why don't you get back to addressing the points made? If you are able...
For those of you that would like to learn rather than be dogmatic (I hope that includes you, BLEEP) check out the book Combatting Cult Mind Control by Steven Hassan. You can find it online at www.amazon.com or www.amazon.ca (for you Canucks, eh).
Edited by - Quotes on 12 August 2002 17:29:44
Bleep

I do not take action in the worldly affairs. Praying would be better than trying to fix this broken system of things. You don't believe in your Countries decision of having your own religion. When I go door to door, I'm looking to spread the good news, not propaganda about a religion. Never do we try to convert someone over to be a JW. We are trying to encourage Bible reading. Not a thought about if we just believe that Jesus will save us then all we have to do is be good and wait.
Those were some quotes and not the whole topic about A Cult. Show me the source beans got that from. And a few Bible scriptures that show what mankind should stay away from.
Crazy151drinker

Never do we try to convert someone over to be a JW.
ROTFLMAO!!
Bleep

First let me read the articles and the Reasoning Book then I will post the accurate knowledge. If that sounds reasonable from the scriptures then we can go to the next "fun" topic.
Crazy151drinker

Bleep, nothing from the WT is accurate so you will have to find some other source for your information.

A Cult

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