by Englishman 25 Replies latest social entertainment
Abolitionist movement was picking up steam and getting pretty strong,
I agree that slavery was on the way out. Just wanted to point out that the north would have loved to continue the status quo. We northerners hold ourselves up as somewhat noble for ending slavery. There were others considerably more noble and many of them were from the south.
Hey LB-----This is a facsinating and inexhaustible subject, don't you think? I always enjoy reading you. Thanks for responding. David
Thanks David and yes, it is a facinating subject. I was obsessed with the civil war as a child. Eventually I traveled to see Gettysburg. It is a very unnerving place. My ex brother in law is from Alabama and still hates northerners for some reason, guess it is how he was taught as a youth.
These days I go watch some civil was recreations when they are in the area. That always fuels my interest in the civil war. I have a couple of civil war black powder recreation guns and compete with them a few times a year. What I can't imagine is trying to fire one of those, under pressure while a wave of my fellow Americans are charging me. Intending me extreme harm. If I am in a hurry and don't measure the powder closely I can fire the gun every 20 seconds. I understand many were able to refire it every 8 seconds but sometimes they didn't have time to remove the ramrod.
Funny though, how after 150 years, so many of these same feelings people had then are still around these days.
LB, one of the things that has always puzzled me about the war is how the South could have put up such a valiant effort and made the war last so long. I guess that the most obvious explanation has to do with Lincoln' s early choice of worthless generals. But I don't think that, or anything, can explain how an agricultural society with hardly any means to sustain a war effort and with comparitively few men and boys to put into uniform could go up against such a powerhouse as the North. By all logic, the war should have been over with in a year. Or if Southern leaders had done some simple arithmetic, it shouldn't have started at all. And what is further puzzling, if General Lee could have pulled it off at Gettysburg, the South would have won. And, but for a couple of tactical blunders, he very nearly did pull it off. If a couple of bad breaks had gone the the other way, it would have been Lincoln trying to escape in the middle of the night disguised as a woman. It has been said that the Battle of Gettysburg produced the loudest noise ever heard on the North American continent. The explosions could be heard over 150 miles away. Jesus! I can't even imagine the horror. My guess is that these young men and boys who participated in the battle weren't too concerned about the ethics and morality of slavery; they were just thinking: "What the hell am I doing here and how am I going to get out?" Over 50,000 didn't leave. I guess it's a sobering experience to see all those graves. Do you know why there are only 3000 or so graves? Do you know why Confederate soldiers aren't allowed to be there? I've read that the United Daughters of the Confederacy threw a fit about it and wanted them moved south, and I think that's a shame. But I've never been able to find a definite reason. And more puzzling again is how Lee managed to retreat, regroup and fight for 2 more years. Surely his men had to be disheartened and broken and they had to realize the futility of further resistance. But, with war being what is, power has to be combined with strategy, and the North didn't have a very effective strategy. If Lincoln had had Grant and Sherman running things from the beginning, I don't see the war lasting too long. I would be interested in getting your thoughts, when you have time.....
David
War was a different game back then. The south not only was undertrained but underarmed. Just imagine, they had to supply their own weapons and quite often their own uniforms too. I've read that the north was so confident that this war would be a cakewalk that it really didn't matter who ran the show. Generals were appointed according to who you knew, sort of like elders I guess.
The south certainly fought on guts. They were fighting in their own backyard. Of course the old hatred for someone different than you played a big part. Defending the honor of their homeland and their women meant a lot.
Yes I knew about the number of graves. Many bodies were removed after the battle and units were buried together, such as one in Missouri. Contracts were actually offered to remove and rebury bodies.
I've always thought that this war could have been easily avoided, except for the stubborness of the northern leaders at the time. Greed is an ugly thing.
I do understand the emotions of the soldiers at the time, especially at the battle of Gettysburg. Nothing was in their heads except fear. Run across a field towards canyon fire or be shot in the back for running away, great choices.
for those that need more proof that the south is still full of idiots.
from the nytimes.
An Imaginary Homicide
By BOB HERBERT
If you are going to charge three defendants with capital murder for killing a newborn, do you have an obligation to show that the baby really was killed?
Not in Alabama, you don't.
Do you need to show, somehow, that the baby ever existed?
Not in Alabama. Not if the defendants are poor, black and retarded.
"I mean this thing is just unbelievable," said Rick Hutchinson, a lawyer from the tiny Choctaw County town of Butler, whose client, Medell Banks Jr., is in prison for killing the hypothetical infant.
Back in 1999 Mr. Banks's estranged wife, Victoria, was in jail on an unrelated charge when she came up with the idea of claiming she was pregnant, hoping that would get her released, said Mr. Hutchinson. Both Medell and Victoria Banks are retarded, Mr. Hutchinson said, and they had separated in the mid-90's.
Victoria Banks was seen by a doctor but would not let him do a pelvic exam. The doctor said he did not think she was pregnant. She was then seen by another doctor, who reported hearing a fetal heart tone but conducted no further tests.
That was enough to get Ms. Banks released on bond in May 1999. The following August she was taken back into custody. She did not have a baby and there was no evidence at all that she had given birth.
Had the authorities been duped? Where was the baby?
What the authorities didn't know, and wouldn't find out until later, was that in 1995 Ms. Banks had undergone a bilateral tubal ligation a sterilization procedure in which the fallopian tubes are effectively blocked so that conception cannot occur.
The baffled and increasingly angry investigators began an intense period of interrogation. Medell Banks was brought in, and so was Victoria's sister, Dianne Tucker, who is also retarded. Mr. Banks was kept in custody and questioned over many days without the benefit of counsel.
By the time the questioning had concluded, all three individuals had confessed. Yes, they said, a baby had been born and they had killed it.
Mr. Hutchinson, the lawyer, said he firmly believed that the interrogators "planted that idea in the minds of these mentally retarded people."
All three were arrested and charged with capital murder. The penalty options upon conviction would be execution or life in prison without parole.
I asked the district attorney, Robert Keahey, what evidence he had that a baby had really been born and killed. He said, "Well, they all told us that."
I asked if that was all.
He said, "Well, the baby wasn't inside of her. It was inside of her when she left the jail, and when they said they killed it, it wasn't inside her. So that's pretty good evidence to us."
There's nothing like a capital murder charge to make you start looking around for an escape route. Incredibly, all three defendants ended up pleading guilty to manslaughter for the death of the hypothetical baby.
But Mr. Banks continued to insist he was innocent, and his court-appointed lawyers, Mr. Hutchinson and a co-counsel, Jim Evans, would not let the case go. They raised enough money from churches and other charitable sources to have a medical test done on Victoria Banks by a noted fertility expert, Dr. Michael Steinkampf of the University of Alabama School of Medicine.
Dr. Steinkampf determined that the tubal ligation which all parties agreed had been performed in 1995 had been effective, and that in his opinion Ms. Banks could not have become pregnant.
Last week the Alabama Court of Criminal Appeals ruled that "a manifest injustice" had occurred in this case and threw out Medell Banks's guilty plea. He is still in prison, however, serving his 15-year sentence and awaiting further court action.
(Victoria Banks is also serving 15 years, concurrent with a sentence in a separate case. Dianne Tucker has been released from prison but has given up all rights to appeal her manslaughter plea.)
If Mr. Keahey has any say (and he does), Medell Banks will remain in prison. The district attorney plans to appeal last week's ruling to the Alabama Supreme Court.
I asked if there was a chance, in light of the latest evidence and the court's ruling, that he would consider dropping the charges against Mr. Banks. He replied, "Not in this lifetime."
Edited by - bakedcanuck on 15 August 2002 10:43:25
