Baptism - The Issue of Consent - for children

by Lady Lee 37 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  puzzled

  A Thousand Thank You's Farkel!
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  Bang

  I think that the ex-jws should come to realise now that baptism is not about a one chance earned and secured contract for membership in the beast-god's private club - for the benefits of armageddon avoidance and future rewards.

  All I can say is if you knew the Lord, you would take your newborn babes to Him because you simply couldn't wait to, as none other is so kind and dependable, so merciful, so reliable - so loving - no others that you can trust so absolutely to do the most right and good by your child.

  Like Abraham, who believed against hope, in His goodness. There was in reality, no reason for him to worry about giving his only son, none at all, no one else could be trusted so with his well-being.

  The lie of men is that God can't really be trusted, so better make sure your kids are prepared to come before this nasty judge.

  Take your littlest children.

  bang
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  Pistoff

  Lee:

  This is right on the mark; I have posted here and Justjw's and elsewhere on the fact that baptism is a social contract and that it should be invalid for many because of the precise points you have made.
  It is NOT too wordy; we all know that the GB won't listen to just anybody, that you have to be somebody to get listened to; and that they *don't* get simple ideas expressed easily. I swear, since most of them are not college educated they are awed by the impressive use of words more than anyone.
  I have contacted a lawyer about the exact ideas in your post:

  Minors are barred from such a contract;
  Terms of the contract are hidden until "signed"

  and my own particular beef:

  IT IS APPLIED UNEVENLY, DISCRIMINATELY, AND VICTIMIZES THOSE WITH ADDICTION ISSUES AND DEPRESSION.

  Can we all focus on this issue and somehow bring it to a head with Brooklyn, by writing and possibly with the aid of a legal fund?

  GREAT POST
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  ErieGuy

  *********Can we all focus on this issue and somehow bring it to a head with Brooklyn, by writing and possibly with the aid of a legal fund?********

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  WHY? Are you trying to prove to Brooklyn that ex-JWs are even more stupid and ignorant than they already believe?

  ____________

  Anyone with half a brain knows that "baptism" is a religious rite which is NOT subject to application of "contract law".

  Edited by - ErieGuy on 12 August 2002 9:33:38
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  SpiderMonkey

  Erie, of course baptism is a religious rite, and not subject to application of contract law. No judge can or should force the JW's to back down from their stance on child baptism. But those who administer the rite should at least show the same discernment as those who determine who can or can't enter into a legally binding contract. I think the point here is that children just don't have the ability to determine whether they will forever be willing to abide the terms of *any* contract they agree to at a young age. Religious, legal or otherwise. Yes, JW baptism is a contract, with lifelong penalties for those children who accept it and then, as adults, realize that they made a childish mistake. And that is wrong. Wrong on the part of those who set the doctrine, not the children that make the so-called choice to be baptized.
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  garybuss

  
  
  Thanks for the thread Lady Lee
  
  The doctrine requiring adolescent commitment to the group leaders by ritual bathing, aka baptism, is called *family merit* and can be easily researched by doing a word search on the Watch Tower Publishing Company's CD.
  
  According to the Corporation writings, family merit expires at puberty and must be replaced by individual commitment to avoid the threat of being killed by Jehovah.
  
  Your article was nicely written and I appreciated your and other poster's emphasis on the lack of disclosure. In business and ethics, disclosure is elementary. My own experience involved coerced involvement with the Watch Tower Corporation without disclosures at all. My parents were the real incompetent perpetrators and were willfully ignorant and criminally inconsiderate. The Corporation benefits from ignorant, superstitious theists like my parents and directs those to do it's dirty work.
  
  We were tricked and trapped and there is no honorable escape with impunity.
  
  Thanks to all for being here. Best wishes always,
  
  gb
  
  
  
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  Bang

  to avoid the treat of being killed by jehovah

  Well, there's intimidation and coercion for a start - contract void.

  pledge allegiance to jehovah - no such person - so contract void.

  Jw baptism is not the baptism of God, but the baptism of men. Even then, children, or anyone else for that matter, shouldn't be held to a contract acquired by an intimidating coercion.

  bang
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  blueroom

  I'm not the person I was last year. I'm not the person I was when I was 21. Not the persosn when I was 19. Let alone the person I was when I was 12 and was baptized.
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  jack2

  Excellent thread Lady Lee;

  I, like so many others, was baptized when I was a teen, and looking back, I knew nothing about what really being a jw was all about.

  My 'teacher' (long ago df'd and who was reproved publicly just after I was baptized) said to me after I studies for a few months "so, what are you waiting for?"; and only becuase he said that did the thought of baptism occur to me; I remember the feeling of embarrasment when he said that, as if not getting baptized would make me look like i was unwilling to progress. At that age, I just didn't know what to think.

  There have been many times when I have wanted to somehow rescind my baptism.
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  Lady Lee

  It makes me sad that there are so many here who were baptized as children, not fully aware of the long-term consequences of such a decision.

  At 17 I made that decision and like jack2 there have been many times I could take it back - not the promise to love God but the public display known as baptism in the JWs.