by Celtic 25 Replies latest jw friends
Celtic
I could not have put it any better then you just did, all this goes on in JW families, hypocrisy, lies, and lets not forget gossip, and double standards.
To them, it's like your always wrong, but what I do in my home is totally OK, and alot of things are hidden.
Also shunning another biggy, we will shun some people, but not others, this drives me crazy.
Actually, now that you mention it, the hypocracy and sheer mean-spiritedness coming from some of my JW family members may have done more to stumble me than I realize. I remember growing up hearing my mother make some terrible, heartless comments about people, esp. those who were religious. She certainly DID NOT in any way demonstrate religious tolerance or basic regard for people. She also made some racist/ethnic comments, that IMO, puts her squarely in a camp that I'd never respect. Obviously, if people were JW's, all was forgiven. But, outside of that, she was quite honestly bigoted. My sister has demonstrated that same tendencies, which I guess for some reason surprised me.
For all the claims of not loving material things, I have to say that my mother and other JW relatives demonstrate some of the scariest forms of materialism I've ever seen. They overtly use money as a tool, and while I'm sure they're probably generous in contributing to the WTS, they are NOT generous in spirit and in giving to others. For example, when there's a death in the family, you can bet they are there first, trying to get their share. There are other things I see, too numerous to mention, and possibly to petty to discuss, that I won't go into. But that's probably it mostly, the sheer pettiness that my JW family members exhibit. Having had many outside friends/experiences, I can honestly say that in many ways my JW family are social clods. They haven't been taught REAL, honest, politeness and goodness of character.
Now, I totally agree that JW's do not have the market on these negative traits. No argument there. There are bad people and good people, and everything in between everywhere. But my observation is that my mother, who made the concious decision to become a JW, just transformed some of her most unattractive and socially unacceptable traits into something perceived as positive when she became a JW. I don't think she really liked herself much, or others much, either, and she came into the religion to get some form of acceptance or feel better about herself than she could have on the outside. People who live by a prescribed set of standands and rules generally lack depth of character. And that's part of the problem I see with JWs. They don't really develop deeply. They aren't willing to face and accept or change the negative aspects of their personalities. They must appear a certain way. To others and to themselves.
To me, this phenomenon breeds what appears to some others (who really know them) a pack of hypocrites, users, and liars. Yes, liars.
Sorry, I've just seen recently A LOT of negativity coming from my JW relatives. Negativity that was there all along, but I don't think I allowed myself to really give voice to it. I won't go into detail. But, obviously, since their love, feeling, and goodwill toward me is highly conditional, and I obviously don't meet their standards, I feel I've seen the real them. And it's not good. They'd be far better people I believe if they'd chuck that religion and just be themselves. And think for themselves.
Hello Blacksheep, I believe not yet have we had the pleasure of meeting one anothers acquaintance online, how do you do?
You have a very well structured prose in the manner within which you write your feelings and your understanding of the issues at play comes shining through, very encouraging to see.
Looking forward to more of your posts in the future. In the meantime, please keep me informed as to the state of your well being and if anytime, there is any advice and/or friendship I can personally offer you, please do not be frightened of asking.
Cheerio for now & kind regards.
Celtic Mark - Cornwall UK
I am going to have to agree with minimus on this one.
My JW family sucks ass, just as do a lot of other families with high religious standards, hell even families with no professed faith at all, are subject to the same feelings, and behavior.
Hypocrisy is sadly a large part of the human condition, we are very good at picking and choosing what we wish to adhere to. Every person who has ever taken a breath on this planet has been a hypocrite at one time or another, regardless of if they meant to be or not.
. "Bitter words, designed to bring the other person down to their level. To congregational members they appear the most calm and loving individuals, yet in home life, a different truth is displayed, including emotional blackmail "
Tell me about it!
Minimus and Joanna are also right though. Everyone is human and many people would be "difficult" anyway. The point that gets our goat is that they claim to be so different, so damn better than everyone else and yet at home they are so judgemental and quick to use all the argumentative skills they learned on the doorsteps - just to put you down .
O K. end of my winge
Thank you for your comments, Celtic. I appreciate your thoughts. I'm sure a certain negativity in my attitude came through--but your post struck a nerve. I've been doing a bit of soul-searching lately as a result of past and recent behavior of my JW family. In particular, the dynamics of my family (devout JW mom/non-believing but very JW supporting dad) have consistently put me in the "black sheep" role in my family. My JW members have often held themselves up as--and been perceived as--more spiritual, more loving, more giving by my father and certain other members of my family, who are not as intimately familiar with the JW teachings and treatment of others as I am.
Just as an example, when it became clear I was "leaving the flock," my mother (of course not in the presence of my father) attacked me for making HER life more difficult. What this meant was, her shunning of me and need to treat me more harshly was making it more difficult to present the loving, attractive, giving, family-first appearance she needed to present. No concern for me, for my struggle to stop living a lie. No real concern for me as a human struggling to do the right thing in the face of a tremendous brainwashing effort. Living her pretence clearly is more important than nurturing a human. By leaving the organization (or fading away), I was making HER LIFE difficult. It was I who was creating the problem, I who was the "bad seed" (her exact words), I was being selfish in not living life as a JW. I saw that over and over growing up, and am still struggling with it as I try to do the right thing in the face of my JW family's selective shunning of me and need to make themselves and the society appear above reproach.
Again, I fully agree that JW's are not the only ones who are hypocrites. They are not the only ones who are imperfect. However, I think this board demonstrates the testimony of just how humanly hurful their beliefs can be to others. They DO actively try to set themselves up as better than others, more worthy of respect. And therefore, they likely deserve greater judgment and deserve to have their hypocracy pointed out when those (usually their "loved ones" ) who've suffered at their hands actually give their testimony. Funny, I'm a grown up with kids of my own, and am still being treated like a bad child by the family. I've been trying to take the high road (not to sound too noble....but isn't that what most of us have to do?--but it IS getting very difficult to find a balance on my own). Would this have happened if JWism wasn't involved? I highly doubt it. Yes, there would be problems. But I seldom see outright life/death proclamations and sanctions against relatively "normal" families. It seldom gets THAT serious. I mean, when some members of the family think they will live forever in paradise, grow youthful and healthy, while you'll be mercilessly anhilated, with you corpse unceremoniously strewn on the earth with your eyes pecked out carrion birds...doesn't it kind of affect the relationship in a more profound way than say, if you just disagree on certain traditions or politics????
Ironically, my mother and other JW family members must credit the fact that they are JW's to making our family life so wonderful....??? I kid you not.
Whew....I'll take a break now!!!! It's been a bad couple of weeks. I happen to be on the "outs" with the JW members of my family at a very vulnerable time in my life, due to the recent shunning reinforcement the JW's have received, so I'm sure that's pretty apparent.!!! And, I'm fully aware that they are presenting a particularly one-sided view of me and our relationship to the Non-JW members of my family. I don't have the energy or desire to get embroiled in that...so I'll just vent here, thank you very much..:)
Thanks again, Celtic. After all these years as an ex-JW, it IS wonderful to see that I'm not alone. But, as many people with JW loved ones, I struggle with the often one-way street that I find myself on. I'd love to here more of your story.
The point that gets our goat is that they claim to be so different
Amen brother blues...er I mean blues brother
Interesting post Celtic.
Re. taking ones complaint to the elders. This is about a person with severe cognitive disonance going to another group with the same problem plus a load of pressure on them.
This situation is filled with suppressed anger and confusion in everyone involved in the family and the organization.
This is assuming of course, that they are intelligent enough to recognize the conflicting claims versus reality at some level.
I believe that this situation exists in every jw family,marriage,relationship. So in other words we can only expect this sort of thing to exist. Because to be in the wbts organization means one is a little or a lot crazy.
outoftheorg
Do we have the same Aunt???
We must be related.
I think maybe the difference in jw relatives and other religions and ordinary folks, is that the treatment is a GROUP thing. I don't know of any other religion that REQUIRES its members to be RUDE and HATEFUL to those who have left; there probably are some, I just don't know about them.
The other thing is, and someone already mentioned this, they CLAIM to be so loving and caring.....and I've known jws who are, but it's INSPITE of the org, not because of it. [Actually one I thought was just the best person in the whole world, I'm finding out is a real psycho bitch to her husband and daughter. Can we use that word on here?]
There was an article on how to treat 'faithful jws' who have df'd relatives. It counseled against ignoring them or treating them rudely and coldly, which tells you that they WERE treating them that way, otherwise why counsel against it? So when I'm out shopping with my young daughter, who is still a jw, they really have no reason to treat her like dirt just because they want to do that to me.
Libby
