I NEED your advice!!!!! Please reply!

by worldly girl 31 Replies latest jw friends

  • blacksheep
    blacksheep

    I just have to comment on the promotion of all this "love bombing" to parents who have been abusive, and/or who will be potentially abusive other children.

    I don't agree. You have no obligation to let you child see your parents. Them being "brainwashed" by the JW org is absolutely no excuse for their unacceptable and even scary behavior. Their is NO excuse. You don't owe them forgiveness for subjecting you to abusive treatment as a child, and you don't owe them anything now. Throughout history horrible parenting has been "excused" by people who would have children, who haven't the emotional, physical, or mental maturity, to help themselves.

    Stop the cycle. Set YOUR limits and make sure your parents abide by them. If you FEEL like forgiving them and simply "LOVING" them, regardless of what they do or say, that's up to you. IT IS NOT REQUIRED simply because they are your parents.

  • Mary
    Mary

    Sorry to say, but your mother sounds like a typical Witness. If she admitted that sexual abuse actually goes on in the Organization, then that might mean (gasp!) that Jehovah's Spirit isn't upon them at all!! And we all know that THAT kind of "independent thinking" will earn you a nice little Judicial Committee meeting.

    Seeing as your mother was so rude and pooh-poohed your sexual abuse as nothing more than "apostasy", then I would be very leary of letting her see your children without you or your husband present. Given her callous comments, she would almost certainly try and slip in comments about Jehovah or the New System or the Kingdom Hall, even though this is against your wishes. Another thing too is: parents quite often don't like their children telling THEM what they can and cannot do; they're used to having things the other way round.

    I'm not sure what your father has said in all of this, but until your mother apologized to you I wouldn't let her see your kids at all.

  • QUEENIE
    QUEENIE

    MORNING WORLDY GIRL---ALL ARE GREAT ADVICE--but you must make up your own MIND in regard to this--yes it is a tough one to be sure...I and my kid are grown adults now soooo when they confront us in public I remind them sometime of my stand with their ORG or just plug my ears up or walk away--JWs always want to call the shots for some reason and can not stand it when it is you that calls them shots....OH well...good luck worldy girl..I am labeled heathenistic / deamonized / bad association, etc. NO ONE IS PERFECT GUYS...QUEENIE and crew !!

  • Victor_E
    Victor_E

    Hi WG,
    You asked for it here it goes. All the advice you are getting is good viewed through a lens of objectivity and compassion for self, child, and parents. The problem is you can't at this point. Deep down you know what you need to do but the emotions keep you from doing it. So first things first, in order to sort through and do an emotional drain this is what you need to do. Write a letter to your parents, this letter is not for their sake but for yours. You may decide to send it to them or not it makes no difference since this is for your sake. In this letter you will write the following in this order;

    1. Tell them how you are so angry at their words and actions or lack of words or actions.
    In this part of the letter give yourself permision to write about any and all things you feel anger towards them, going back as far as you want.

    2. Next you tell them how you are hurt by them and anything related to them ie the religion. Again pour your little heart out.

    3. Next tell them how you are afraid about anything related to the relationships with all parties involved now and in the future.

    4. Next tell them about any regrets you have towards them and what could have been but isn't. You may or may not include regrets you have about how you have acted feeling wounded it's up to you.

    5. Next tell them what your pure positive intentions are and tell them how you understand their intentions also. Here you write to them about how all are victims of circumstances.

    6. Finally tell them how much you appreciate all they have done for you and if you feel like it tell them of your love for them.

    After you write this letter you will write a second letter addressed to you. You will wait to write this letter till tomorrow. Tomorrow you re-read the letter to yourself that I just outlined above. As you read this letter you will need to pretend to be your parents taking on their beliefs, values, criterion, limited understanding etc. Once you finish with the letter you will write the second letter to yourself from their perspective. Here you write only the things you need and want to hear from them and nothing else. Have fun and let us know what happens.

  • Dawn
    Dawn

    Hi Worldly Girl:

    My advice would be to do what you truly believe is in the best interests of your children.

    It is really hard sometimes for us to do what is right - emotions get in the way, either we love and miss our parents so much that we'll give in when we shouldn't - or we are so angry at them that we refuse to allow them to see our kids when we should. Both circumstances can happen. So the best course is to sit back - try to extract yourself emotionally for even a few minutes and look at the situation objectively - then decide, if you were an outsider looking at all options, which one would you recommend that is best for the children.

    In my instance I really wanted to not let my parents see my kids for a long time because I was so angry. But my son had already developed such a deep attachment to my parents that it would have been really damaging to him to cut all ties - I had to learn to deal with things and combat their "preaching" in other ways. When he came home from their house we had a little "post decompression session" [;D] where I would explain why Grandma & Grandpa say certain things or believe certain things. In the end, it all worked out for the best - I was able to mend my relationship with my parents and help my son from falling into the cult trap - but that's only in my case. I am sure there are other situations where not seing the grandparents at all is the best option.

    Just be sure to make your decision with your children's interests first.

  • Granny Linda
    Granny Linda

    How very, very sad. This type thing pisses me off real fast. I've been out of that filthy church for over 30 years and believe me...any JW that would dare speak that religious mumbojumbo to my grandkids will be hard pressed to escape the ramifications for their unwanted intrusion. Someone already mentioned how JW really think what they to say is much more important than respecting the wishes of others...GRRRRRRR.

    It is painful, but we are the one's who when all is said and done, reap the rewards for not placing our children in harms way. That to me is what JW's are about. Harm, and more of the same. Yes, I'd be even more cautious considering the sexual abuse. I do not like, respect, have to turn the other cheek for their sake, or pretend too like anything about people who adhere to such wickedness.

    I'd agree with BlackSheep in that just because they sired us does not give them special rights. I'm really angry over this...and yes, there are others waiting to embrace your child(ren) and be grandparents. Witnesses, however "good" they might be, blahblahblah, are what they are. What more do we need to remember then our (your) own experiences when it comes to making decisions about our children. Signing off before I say something really crude and "hateful."

    Granny; who just adopted a soon to be born baby (tomorrow is due date) and the mother is df and experiencing much the same from her jw family. Can't have to many grandchildren.

    GL

  • A Paduan
    A Paduan

    Innoculate. It's strong protection. If my parents talked jwism to my son I would not have to worry - still, I wouldn't plainly let them, for my own composure, and for his healthy view of my parents - as being ill rather than evil.

    A three pronged approach

    - innoculate with such things as Jehovah's not actually His name, it's only a 'modern' religion (christianity is very old), the bible stories are special spiritual teachings not to be taken in a literal way (eg eating rules) - even buddhists know that, end of the world people have anxiety from underlying fears, jws have touted a heap of known false prophesies, they're no better than anyone else (and often even worse), they don't give to charity and establish social welfare etc etc

    - kindness, make sure your not an angry nut case in front of them and teach them to be kind to all creation, and to your 'affected' parents.

    - satisfy, give them the things that your parents are trying to subvert you with. Be the one to tell them bible stories, that they are stories, for goodness, and definitely not self-righteousness.

    If you don't want your children to drown, you give them swimming lessons - better that than moving inland - there's always a body of water somewhere.

    paduan

    Edited by - a paduan on 22 August 2002 18:11:27

  • blacksheep
    blacksheep

    It really burns me up that they want to try to have a relationship with my child, yet I am their child and they want NOTHING to do with me. That makes me wonder if when my child is old enough, will they treat her the same way if she makes her OWN choices???

    WG, sorry I do not have any revolutionary solutions for you, but you just nailed EXACTLY what Im experiencing with my family. My mom sounds very similar to yours, and my dads a non-believer but ALWAYS supported mom in forcing us to be JWs. Hes also made me sick with holding my holier-than-thou MOTHER up as the object of selflessness, when in reality, I know shes not. Hes been bambozzled by her JW claims of goodness all these years, and because Ive never really accepted it, never liked service, meetings, etcs., Im selfish.

    I feel exactly the same way YOU feel about your parents trying to have relationship with your daughter when they treat you like CRAP. I just explained exactly that thing to my JW sister, who wants to be there to celebrate the birth of my next child, but at the same times wants to shun me. Its a long, long story, which I wont go into here.

    But, you know, I think whats happening here is that BOTH of us are so angry with what happened to us as kids, all the deprivation, the abuse (I wasnt sexually abused, however, thats got to be brutal for you), the singling out as different from everyone else, the never measuring up to perfect JW standards.were still hurting. And we DONT want to see our children hurt in the same way. When mom comes in and starts making it look like shes wonder grandma, or whatever, or makes it appear that SHE knows whats best for our kids, its the same old replay. Were older, wiser, and have managed to separate ourselves from the JW sickness, but we cannot help but see our situation through our childrens. We dont want what happened to us to happen to them. And, as sick as my mom is in that religion, I would not put it past her to try to make her grandchildren into what her children could have been. I know my mom has talked about secretly studying with children (when I was a JW), so I am VERY leary of her intentions.

    Im a bit lucky in this situation, because I honestly dont think my mother has a lot to offer my son and about-to-be-born daughter. I really dont. Sounds harsh, but Im so sick of her being held up as a holy person that I think she needs to be brought down to earth. And I think she sucked in many ways as a mother. Had she failed to try to shield me from sexual abuse and then claim I was lying, I REALLY would worry. Not only for myself but for my child. Im also lucky if you can call it that, in that my son has not developed a very close relationship with his grandmother: there has always been a distance.

    Anyway, just trying to let you know I understand, even if I do not have the answers. Children are SO innocent and trusting. When you hear her talk about her grandparents, I know its hard. But my guess is that it bothers you FAR more than her. Shes not privy to all the treatment you had growing up, and if she WERE, she wouldnt be able to do anything about it anyway, as a child. She'd probably accept their behavior as normal.. All you can do is to try to protect her. And protect yourself. And trust your instincts.

    Again, I think Id think about exactly what limits you would like to set in this relationship. Or even if you WANT a relationship at all. It IS your call. I think it bugs your parents (particularly your mother) to no end that you have control in a situation that she does not. JW's feed on control, and they clearly don't have it with you.

  • worldly girl
    worldly girl

    Blacksheep: As sick as this may sound it's comforting to know that someone else besides my immediate family understands what I'm going thru... Although I wish NO ONE had to experience these things.

    I think you hit the nail on the head when you said that what is really eating her up is the fact that she has NO CONTROL over this situation.

    Granny: I appreciate your compassion.... if only more people were like you! :)

    To be perfectly honest, I really DO NOT want a relationship with them. I'm not basing that on emotion entirely.... But when they are "outta sight, outta mind", I'm much more pleasant to be around. It's gotten to the point that my husband can tell just by my tone of voice when my parents have contacted me...And I have noticed that each and every time they contact me I tend go into a depression that may last anywhere from 1 week to several months. I really don't think a relationship with them is healthy for me or my family. Believe it or not, my brother in law feels the same way about my parents, because my older sister goes thru the same thing.... Both of them(my sister and her husbvand) are "inactive", I don't know all the details, just that he stepped down as an elder and joined her as missing in action shortly thereafter. BUT that's another story in itself.

    To be perfectly honest, I'll probably sever<sp> all ties with them to avoid disappointment on the part of my daughter. You know, I'm grown, and I can get thru this, but I'll never be able to live with myself if I allow them to hurt her like they have me, and my gut feeling is that they won't be able to help themselves... as it is all they know. What a sad place to be in you life.... (thinking of my parents)... Well maybe Bethel can produce some "grandkids" for them, since they rule the rest of my parents life.

    Oh yeah, my father.... He has no "balls".... hate to be so crude, but it's true. My mother has ALWAYS worn the pants in this family, and he will go along with WHATEVER she says... Therefore, I have no respect for him, and cannot feel like his intentions in contacting me are sincere.... Just by the fact that my mother hasn't attempted to bring closure to our last "argument", but has the NERVE to have my father contact me to manipulate me into allowing them to see my baby.

    THIS IS SO STRESSFUL............... UGH

    WG

  • jgnat
    jgnat

    I had some other thoughts since my first post, and I have seen some of those expressed by others here. There are members of my family that I do not visit. These ones who are so abusive that they add nothing of benefit to my family.

    My mother is a master manipulator. I have learned through the years that she uses manipulation to "force" love her way, because deep down, she does not believe she is lovable. It does not help that she has a mental illness and has deteriorated steadily since I was a teen. I was angry at my mom for many years for not being the mom I needed her to be.

    Getting past my own anger was one of the pivotal moments of my life. I grieved the loss of what I could have, and went about discovering who this woman was, and how I could relate to her.

    This may surprise you, but my mother is not on my "do not visit" list. She is handicapped by genetics and a narrow world view...and my mother has surprised me in the last few years. Despite all her handicaps, she has mellowed a great deal. She posts my letters, cards and pictures prominently in her apartment. A small thing, but it has done a great deal to heal my wounded heart. Do I use her for emotional support? Definitely not! Are we both the better for keeping in touch? For sure!

    My mother is the one who has restored my hope in mankind, that even those who appear lost are capable of reform. My mom and the Berlin Wall.

    The people on my "do not visit" list are the ones who would, in the blink of an eye, hurt a child if it benefited them in some way. For me, this is the definition of evil.

    And whoever is a cause of trouble to one of these little ones who have faith in me, it would be better for him if a great stone was put round his neck and he was dropped into the sea. Mark 9:42 (BBE)

    No one can take away control of your own life. Decide what you want, and set the limits.

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