DID SATAN REALLY LIE?

by Mary 33 Replies latest jw friends

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  Mary

  I have a couple of questions that no one has been able to answer, as apparently, no one else at the Hall has thought of it.

  My question is regarding the command that Jehovah gave Adam regarding eating from the Tree.

  Genesis 2:16 says "and Jehovah God also laid this command upon the man: "From every tree of the garden you may eat to satisfaction. But as for the tree of the knowledge of good and bad you must not eat from it, for in the day you eat from it you will positively die."

  Ok, now we all know what happens after that: Satan waits till Eve is alone and gets her to repeat what Adam told her about eating from the tree. In Genesis 3:4, Satan then says "....you positively will not die. For God knows that in the very day of your eating from it, your eyes are bound to be opened and you are bound to be like God, knowing good and bad."

  Chomp, chomp, she takes a bite and then gives some to hubby. Verse 7 says "...Then they eyes of both of them became opened and they began to realize that they were naked......."

  This may seem blasphemous, but here I go anyway: We're always told at the Hall how Satan "lied" to Eve, but I fail to see exactly what he lied about. Their eyes WERE opened, and they "knew good and bad", just as Satan predicted. Does anyone else see this, or am I reading something into this that isn't here?

  My other question is regarding the phrase "in the very day" and what it means. Why is it that Adam and Eve are told both by Jehovah and Satan that their lives would be changed (although at opposite ends of the scale) on the very day they ate the fruit and that's exactly what happened........the change was immediate.

  However, Jehovah also told them that "in the day you eat from it, you will positively die"........but they didn't. According to the scriptures, Adam lived for another 900 years. How can one phrase possibly have two different meanings when meriting out one punishment ?
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  ChuckD

  Before posing that question, it may be more helpful to consider another; Does Satan really exist? If no, then a great deal more starts to make sense as well, as much of what it taught at the Kingdom Hall can be viewed as based on simple folk stores and superstition, not reality.
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  blondie

  Mary, this is a 2-part explanation.

  First, on this point

  However, Jehovah also told them that "in the day you eat from it, you will positively die"........but they didn't. According to the scriptures, Adam lived for another 900 years.

  JWs explain that Adam starting physically deteriorating on the day he ate but since his body was so close to perfection it took 930 years for him to die. In the Bible it speaks of a 1000 years being as a day in God's sight. JWs apply that to this situation and say that Adam died 70 years short of the symbolic day. (Their explanation)

  Second, in the opinion of the JWs, if Satan told the truth, was he blameless.

  Read this quote from the September 2002 issue of "Our Kingdom Ministry."

  Bear in mind that our heavenly Father has an appointed channel of communication, "the faithful and discreet slave." That "slave" has the responsibility to determine what information is made available to the household of faith, as well as "the proper time" for it to be dispensed.

  Thus Satan could have revealed true information but did not do in God's time and not through the proper channel according to the WTS.

  The expression that the WTS uses is "running ahead of God." It is a phrase they hide behind in regard to the child abuse issue. I wish a lightning bolt would come down out of heaven and slay every child molester and their abettors....but...
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  refiners fire

  Mary. this is a question thats been raised here many times before. A lot of dubs at some stage sit down and read their Bible and these questions come up.

  Heres something for you to consider. Read Genesis and look at the scriptures thru which the "curses" come upon nations, those guys like Esau, and Lots daughters, etc. A lot of Biblical curses come thru the firstborn. As well, it is clear that God doesnt like blood mixing and sex sin. A lot of the nations that the Israelites had to exterminate were founded in a forbidden sex act. No wonder there are racists around. Interesting angles to read Genesis from.

  Edited by - refiners fire on 25 August 2002 19:26:42
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  puzzled

  Satan then says "....you positively will not die.

  They positively DID die. So yes Satan positively DID lie. They just didn't drop dead on the same day they ate it. That would have been rather fruitless.

  They had to learn what it meant to die. dropping dead is not dieing it is dropping dead. If they had dropped dead they would not have had a chance to know good from bad. But instead they had 900 years to get it through thier heads and see the effects they also cursed thier children with.

  They suddenly went from perfect (but stupid) to 900 years of pain and dieing and learning a lesson from the school of hard knocks.

  plumimo
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  Elsewhere

  Mary, I have noticed that too and came to the same conclutions.
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  Valis

  They positively DID die. So yes Satan positively DID lie. They just didn't drop dead on the same day they ate it. That would have been rather fruitless.

  ehehe small joke puzzled. The only problem I have with this is that Dog decides to punish creatures he could of just started over with and kicked Satan in the ass and out of existence. It seems to me that Jehovah must have some infiriority complex if he needed to keep playing the..."I'm right and you're wrong" game w/inferior creatures he created. As well...you can't even call that an experiment on Dog's part because any diety that has a lick of critical thinking skill would know that he would't know the outcome according to the scientific method. As we all know, he apparently does know the outcome set forth in Revelation therefore the point is moot. Another angle might be that Satan was not lying at all, but had a more liberal view of living than Jehoba did. I mean really...you get stuck in a paradise earth...you get to walk around naked, but you can't tell? This also means he couldn't leer at Eve...now what kind of life is that?

  Sincerely,

  District Ovebeer of the "drinks from the tree of beer and boobies" class
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  onacruse

  I think Satan's statements in Gen 3 are an excellent example of saying the truth without telling the truth (if that makes any sense). E.g. the NIV comments on Gen 3:5..."your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God. The statement is only half true. Their eyes were opened, to be sure (see v. 7), but the result was quite different from what the serpent had promised." Similar to Satan's quoting Deut 8:3 and Psalm 91:11,12 when tempting Jesus (Matt 4); Satan twisted the real import of those Scriptures.

  This also raises a related question: If Adam and Eve were deceived by this supernaturally devious intelligence, and subsequently manifested any repentance (as Gen 4:1 can be taken to indicate), do they have a hope of resurrection?

  Craig
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  drahcir yarrum

  I don't know if Satan lied. But I do know that I drank with him one night in Davenport, Iowa. He cannot hold his booze. And the women didn't like the fact that he put his hands on their asses while he talked to them.

  That pretty much sums up my knowledge of Satan.
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  puzzled

  ehehe small joke puzzled. The only problem I have with this is that Dog decides to punish creatures he could of just started over with and kicked Satan in the ass and out of existence.

  That would be a good point and a valid one (assuming we believe the Bible here) except for one detail most people seem to always forget. And that is God wanted,or at least had in mind, to do exactly that,

  he could of just started over with and kicked Satan in the ass and out of existence.

  in a sense.

  It wasn't God that wanted to keep us around but it was his son who asked God to NOT destroy us but give us a chance to prove that we are worth saving. Hence the sacrifice.