Jesus ... the greatest sacrifice?

by Simon 26 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • SixofNine
    SixofNine

    Seeing Jesus in that way, should make us more understanding of the huge sacrifice He made.

    No, borgfree, seeing Jesus that way should make us realise how silly (and uneeded) the whole story is.

    I remember how, come memorial time every year, I'd find myself frustratedly trying to muster up some deep emotion that I thought the story of Jesus "sacrifice" was supposed to, "should", make me feel. Inevitably, my thoughts would turn in the direction of your post, Simon, ie: "what was the big deal?" and, "even if it is a big deal, why settle for this solution, God?"

    I'd have to simply turn my thoughts off, so as to not feel like I was being ingrateful.

  • cellomould
    cellomould

    Okay, I admit, it isn't logical...but it is a good way to start a religion, isn't it?

    'Our leader did not die. He was simply fulfilling the Mosaic Law/Sacrificial Priestly duties/Adamic covenant/Davidic covenant! See, it all ties together!'

    By the way, without Judas, this spiritual paradise we know inhabit would not have been possible. Do you ever mention your thanks to him in prayer for leading the Romans to the realJesus and not some other guy? You know, he would have got his 30 pieces of silver either way. After all, if they knew what Jesus looked like, why would they need Judas?

    I think I am onto something there...oh my goodness!

    cellmould

  • Simon
    Simon

    yes, but "Christian" is so much easier to say than "Iscariotian" ... it just sounds like a surgical procedure:

    "I'm going in to have an Iscariotian"

    Ouch

    The point I was trying to make is that while givings ones life is a great sacrifice, doing it for one single person in return seems to be a greater forfeit / sacrifice than if you get billions and don't even cease to exist as a person and of course other people do it without knowing that their super powerful creator of the universe father is immediately going to put it all right.

  • SYN
    SYN

    To repeat something Farkel said, which I can't find , it all started when Adam was made, and then Eve was made, and Eve and Adam ate a fruit, so God punished them by kicking them out of his garden and installing angels with spinning special FX swords at it's "gate" (who made the gate?), and then he made it hard for Eve to have children, and he made Adam and Eve die instead of living forever, but he made it so they could have children who would die too, so people would keep on dying for a very long time, and then he sent his Son to die for all the people who were and are dying, but it doesn't seem to have had any effect, as people still carried right on dying, damn those rebellious dying people!

    This is all Bible-Based (TM).

  • ballistic
    ballistic

    This reminds me of a similar concept of only being a Jehovah's Witness to get the "carrot" of the new systemTM. I constantly made sure in my mind when I was a Witness that I was not serving God for what I could get back, but was only able to do this through constantly reminding myself of this (a bit of personal anti-brainwashing). Most others were brain washed into thinking that they serve God out of love and he then allows them to NOT DIE. LOL

    I questioned several witnesses about this while I was in and 100% admitted they would not be in the 'truth' without the promise of the New System.

  • Sirona
    Sirona

    Simon

    Very interesting question. I suppose I always focus on how I cannot make sense of the whole story anyway, I have honestly never compared Jesus sacrifice with other sacrifices made.

    For those who believe that Jesus is/was God, the assertion is that God "emptied himself" to become a man, and therefore made a tremendous sacrifice. God the Son was on earth without too much knowledge of his purpose until his baptism. Even still, I personally feel that knowing you are God (or Gods Son) and knowing you will be resurrected is enough to endure any torture or death by the hands of men. It must have been tremendously gratifying for Jesus to know how he will put his killers to death, or at least how THEY wouldn't share in the lovely things he had in store for everyone who believes in him. mmm.....

    If we imagine that Jesus DID exist....(which I'm not that sure of) and that he was NOT the Son of God, but rather he was a delusional, yet spiritual, man. In this case, his sacrifice was also relatively easy for him because his persecution enhanced his total delusion.

    Another scenario is that he never claimed to be, or believed he was, the Son of God or God himself. The scriptures may have been embellished by the church to make it appear that Jesus of Nazareth was the messiah, when he didn't claim anything of the sort. In this case, perhaps his death was MORE of a sacrifice....he died for simply preaching a gospel of love and upsetting certain leaders! When dying, he wouldn't have known of any "divine approval".

    Final scenario, IMO, is that Jesus never existed. That is another topic in itself.

    Sirona

  • Navigator
    Navigator

    Sirona

    I am reminded of what Charles Fillmore (founder of the Unity movement)responded when one of his students asked if Jesus was God. "Jesus was not God. However, he so gave up his sense of personal self, so identified with his creator, that it becomes difficult to tell where Jesus leaves off and God begins."

    I think Jesus came to remind us that we are all Sons of God. That we all have that same divine spark within us that Jesus had. He had to be aware of what the outcome of his mission would be and the price that he would have to pay. I don't think that he claimed to be special in any way that we are not. The only difference between him and us is that he remembered who he was and we have chosen to block that out.

  • thepreacher
    thepreacher

    Hi Mr. Simon,

    1) God came to earth and became man, a servant who would spend His ministry as a pauper, knowing that He would go to an excruciating torture and death on the cross...voluntarily! He gave up His human life and took it up again within three days.

    Phil.2 5. Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus: 6. Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, 7. but made himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness. 8. And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient to death-- even death on a cross! 9. Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name, 10. that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11. and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

    2) He is forever both

    God and man. His physical body was raised spiritual complete with the pierced side and nail holes.

    John 20: 25. So the other disciples told him, "We have seen the Lord!" But he said to them, "Unless I see the nail marks in his hands and put my finger where the nails were, and put my hand into his side, I will not believe it." 26. A week later his disciples were in the house again, and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, "Peace be with you!" 27. Then he said to Thomas, "Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe." 28. Thomas said to him, "My Lord and my God!" 29. Then Jesus told him, "Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."

    Acts 1. 8. But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth." 9. After he said this, he was taken up before their very eyes, and a cloud hid him from their sight. 10. They were looking intently up into the sky as he was going, when suddenly two men dressed in white stood beside them. 11. "Men of Galilee," they said, "why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven."

    3) He is the "lamb slain from the foundation of the world" which is one scripture that proves Satan did not pull any surprise on God. In fact, when one looks at the book of Job you can see that he is a 'leashed dog.' He can only go as far as he is permitted in his perpetration of evil. But I digress.

    4) God Himself has taken the fall for our own fall and all who believe on His name will receive salvation, all who do not will choose damnation.

    John 8. 21. Once more Jesus said to them, "I am going away, and you will look for me, and you will die in your sin. Where I go, you cannot come." 22. This made the Jews ask, "Will he kill himself? Is that why he says, `Where I go, you cannot come'?"

    23. But he continued, "You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world. 24. I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am [the one I claim to be], you will indeed die in your sins." 25. "Who are you?" they asked. "Just what I have been claiming all along," Jesus replied. 26. "I have much to say in judgment of you. But he who sent me is reliable, and what I have heard from him I tell the world." 27. They did not understand that he was telling them about his Father. 28. So Jesus said, "When you have lifted up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am [the one I claim to be] and that I do nothing on my own but speak just what the Father has taught me.

    If you notice the "I am" statements, this is the same wording used in Exodus 6.2,3 for YHWH. 'Death and Die' are used in the New Testament with the consistent meaning of eternal damnation and not just a physical death (see Romans 3.23; 6.23). Christianity is, by it's very nature exclusive and leaves no room for other faiths. Jesus was either God incarnate, a liar or a lunatic. The namby-pamby, watered down gospel that claims to be 'Chrisitanity' ala 'liberal is nothing but HOGWASH.

    The Preacher (Who used to be WW)

  • joannadandy
    joannadandy

    Frankly the greatest sacrifice you could ever give is if someone asked for the very last bite, the good pointy part with all the chocolate and ice cream packed inside it, and you gave it to them, without hesitation...THAT IS SACRIFICE!

  • Mackin
    Mackin
    Imagine ... being born and raised by imperfect humans, putting up with all of the faults of imperfect humans, His entire life, ... people who hated Him, and would finally torture Him, and put Him to a cruel death.

    Seeing Jesus in that way, should make us more understanding of the huge sacrifice He made.

    What is so special about Jesus doing this. There are many millions of humans who have been thru much worse than this - and no-one brought them back to life after 3 days.

    How can this be such a hugesacrifice?

    Of course it's just a story that religion has invented to control the masses anyway. It's not like it's actually true or anything.

    Mackin.

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