I wasn't really too concerned with gnosticism as a way of approaching various religions, but rather as a Christian Heresy. As a Christian Heresy it was largely defeated by pen and preaching long before there was a secular arm to the church. I don't debate that the heresy survived in some forms and that the church/secular authorities dealt harshly with it. Again though, the role they were seen to play as subversives and revolutionaries to the secular authorities can not be under rated. Again, I don't condone this, I only try to explain it in the proper light.
Catholics cannonized the Bible, right?
by StinkyPantz 39 Replies latest watchtower bible
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A Paduan
It really is amazing what bigboi just pointed out - no matter what you show to a jw or what they experience, there's always a rationalisation to be found. I have no doubt that this contributes largely to the frustration that people have with them.
Who can possibly stop some of them charging down the hill?
paduan
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seedy3
The gospel of John was the last canoned gospel written and is shown to have been written somewhere around 120ad, again psuedepigraphiclly, by some one that had no idea who or what jesus was or if he even really existed.
seedy
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YERU2
No exact date for any of the Gospels exist, to include that of John. Scholars date it from the Early AD 90's to AT VERY LATEST
AD 120. I've yet to read a serious scholar that questions the existence of Jesus, how he is interpreted perhaps, but not that he was a real person. The earlier date is favored by most scholars as Polycarp knows and quotes John's Gospel. Polycarp had met John the Apostle.
I never met my Grandfather, he died when my mom was 16, she's told and retold his stories so much I can repeat them verbatim.
Edited by - Yeru2 on 2 September 2002 4:6:29
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barry
The first list of all the new testament books we have is a list by St Athanasius in 369 later at the second ecumenical council Pope damasis listred the books in the whole Bible. St Athanasius actually better known for the creed bearing his name ' The creed of athanasius ' where he condems those not beleiving in the doctrine of the trinity. His creed has been largely dropped in place of the nicean and the apostals creed although christians in the east dont have the apostals creed.
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YERU2
The Athanasian Creed is still used widely in the Eastern Churches, it's somewhat lenthy and ponderous for western tastes, but deeply theological.
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seedy3
My date was an average, as they date it from the 90's to the 150's so I took the middle of the road, either way John didn't write it
I also wanted to comment on what you said about the early fathers quoting from it. Well, No one in the first century quoted from it at all, non of them not even Mark that was the first gospel written.
Seedy3
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seedy3
WAIT WAIT WAIT.........
I've yet to read a serious scholar that questions the existence of Jesus, how he is interpreted perhaps, but not that he was a real person.
Any serious Scholar DOES question the real existance of Jesus.
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YERU2
Any serious Scholar DOES question the real existance of Jesus.
Name one who has questioned that existence and decided Jesus was a myth. Not even the Jewish Scholars who work to contradict Christian Missionaries in their community deny Jesus really lived.
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Navigator
The old testament was canonized by the Jews at the Council of Jamnia in 96 A.D.. There was a lot of argument in the early church (which was not Roman Catholic yet) about what books should be included in the New Testament. There is a record of one of the early church fathers receiving a letter from one of his congregations indicating that they had a gospel account written by the apostle Peter and wanting permission to teach from it. He replied that certainly anything written by Peter must be O.K.. However, when he later had an opportunity to examine the gospel, he branded it a gnostic heresy. It seems unlikely that any of the apostles wrote anything. No one knows who wrote the book of John which is written in a high order of greek. Had it not been ascribed to the Apostle John, it is unlikely that it would have made the list. It also seems unlikely that Paul wrote everything ascribed to him. Ascribing a work to someone revered was common technique of winning acceptance for the work. The early "canon" varied considerably during the first 100 years or so, depending on where you were geographicly.