Heh, didn't know that Mackin, thanks for the info!
The GB vs SilentLambs Marchers In September
by SYN 25 Replies latest watchtower child-abuse
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TTBoy
I'm still debating about making the trip from Cleveland. I probobly will.........just to say that I had a part in the hopefull demise of this Sadistic cult.
There better be media coverage!!!! I would hope there will be some add in the New York Times either promoting the march or stating the problems. I also love how
Witnesses either completely ignore this or pitty those who are going to participate. Maybe we'll get some videos like BBC did.
I guess the only thing I have to decide on now, is what my sign is going to say.
Other Reasonable suggestions welcome.
1. Molesters Don't Bring a 2nd Witness 2. You Can't Hide In Your Ivory Tower
3. Police Involvement = Victim Shunning 4. Agressive Shunning Policy For Those Who Speak Out
5. Warning Others Does Not = Slander 6. Pedophile Policy Is Inadquate
7. Hi Dave and Kristie! (my cousins at Bethel) 8. We Want Changes Not Video Tapes
9. Strike Back Against the Empire! 10. You're No Better Than the Catholics You Denounce
11. Court Order The Release of Pedophile Files! 11. Rank & File Take A Stand
13. You Can't Disfellowship Everyone 14. Silence The Lambs - Suffer The Children - Are You Really Jehovah's Organization?
15. You Can't Disfellowship Non Belivers 16. Would Jesus Let A Molester Be An Apostle?
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UnDisfellowshipped
5. The "Child Protection Policy" of the Watchtower is "Bible Based (TM)", i.e. it is based on 4000 year old laws penned by a bunch of nomadic tribesmen who thought that polygamy was OK.
The Watchtower LOVES to use Deuteronomy 19:15:
Deuteronomy 19:15: One witness shall not rise against a man for any iniquity, or for any sin, in any sin which he sins. At the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three witnesses a thing shall be raised up to judgment.
AND ALSO:
1st Timothy 5:19: Do not receive an accusation against an elder unless on "the testimony of" "two or three witnesses."
HOWEVER, the Society COMPLETELY IGNORES the following Scriptures, when they apply their Pedophile Policy:
Deuteronomy 22:25: But if a man finds a betrothed (engaged) girl in the field, and the man seizes her and lies with her; then only the man that lay with her shall die.
Deuteronomy 22:26: And you shall do nothing to the girl; the girl has no sin worthy of death; for as when a man rises against his neighbor and murders him, even so is this matter.
Deuteronomy 22:27: For he found her in the field, and the betrothed (engaged) girl cried out, but no one saved her.NOTICE -- The Girl was ALONE when she was RAPED, and yet, WITH ONLY HER TESTIMONY, the Rapist would be PUT TO DEATH -- So, in other words, under the Mosaic Law Covenant, there was a ONE-WITNESS POLICY for RAPE!
Matthew 18:5: Whoever receives one such little child in My Name receives Me,
Matthew 18:6: but whoever causes one of these little children who believe in Me to stumble, it would be better for him that a huge millstone should be hung around his neck, and that he should be sunk in the depths of the sea.WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU STUMBLE OVER 5,000 CHILDREN?
Romans 13:1: Let every soul be in subjection to the higher authorities, for there is no authority except from God, and those who exist are ordained by God.
Romans 13:2: Therefore he who resists the authority, withstands the ordinance of God; and those who withstand will receive to themselves judgment.
Romans 13:3: For rulers are not a terror to the good work, but to the evil. Do you desire to have no fear of the authority? Do that which is good, and you will have praise from the same,
Romans 13:4: for he is a servant of God to you for good. But if you do that which is evil, be afraid, for he doesn't bear the sword in vain; for he is a minister of God, an avenger for wrath to him who does evil.
Romans 13:5: Therefore you need to be in subjection, not only because of the wrath, but also for conscience' sake.Hmmmm, has the Watchtower Society been in subjection to the Superior Higher Authorities, or have they been resisting them, in regards to their Pedophile Database?
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SYN
Excellent points Undisfellowshipped! They do love those Scriptures, don't they?
Isn't it amazing how they will disfellowship you if only one person busts you smoking virtually instantly, but they will not consider the testimony of a child about rape? It's ridiculous!
According to the Tower, smoking is thus a far worse sin than child molestation!
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Dia
It would seem that something ought to happen in Patterson as well then. Where is Patterson? Is it far from NY City?
I know it's a dreary thought, but honestly, I would not put anything past these guys.
I'm sure THEY have full access to the 27,000 files. And yet they continue to 'lead' this religion? And to keep it all hidden and to themselves?
Could they possibly be as naive as the next JW or are they just plain evil?
Now that you've shown us where to find their bios and pictures, I hope they will be made into posters for the march.
JWs need to see that these are PEOPLE, not fairies.
THEY are the ones left holding the bag. 'The buck stops HERE'.
These crimes and coverups are THEIR responsibility.
They need to be made to face their accountability.
Edited by - Dia on 9 September 2002 8:38:3
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Dia
Most accurately, the 'slogans'/'captions' to go with the pictures of the GB on the protest signs would correctly identify them as 'Criminal Accessories' and perhaps, 'Obstructors of Justice'.
Go get 'em!
The party's over.
Edited by - Dia on 9 September 2002 9:43:38
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JT
Syn says:
My theory is that the Governing Body are going to stand and look out of the window, laugh, and carry on eating their doughnuts!
I sincerely hope that a representative is sent down to speak with the marchers on that day - they deserve at least that much, but, being the eternal cheerful pessimist that I am, in my heart of hearts I fear that that will not be the case
in my view you are correct - they have no need to dignify the protesters- The chances of them sending anyone down is snowballs chance in hell- being that most will either be Dfed or Daed
by default they will not speak or address the crowd.
The Wt has has a long standing policy not to share the stage with Dfed folks- the only context where I know they have has been in a courtroom setting,,
But to go on a show to debate with Dfed or Daed folks I have not seen the wt break that policy yet-
Look at dateline THEY WOULD NOT EVEN talk with the tv guys beyond sending a Properganda video
In fact I bet anyone that a comment will be made to the Bethel Family to avoid all contact or comments
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c5
I believe the WT will look at this protest as another proof that they are being persecuted. They will believe it is trouble initiated by apostates, pawns of Satan the Devil.
They will never admit to making a mistake in this pedophile issue. To do so could cast doubt on them as being God's Organization. They could never afford to do that. They never admit to when they were wrong in the past, and probably never will. Makes me sick.They probably will issue the same stupid statements they have been saying since this whole scandal came up. They will take the role as the innocent God-Fearing group recieving trouble from disgruntled former members. They will also probably take this oppourtunity to reaffirm their faith, as they believe this will be fullfilling bible prophecy.
The bright side of this is that this protest will do wonders to help educate those who know little about JW's. It will help inform people that JW's are not all the happy people who want to help. People need to know the whole truth about JW's.
I have so much respect for Bill Bowen and company, and all who are going to participate in this and other similar goings-on. These efforts will not be in vain.
Cari
Edited by - c5 on 9 September 2002 10:35:33
Edited by - c5 on 9 September 2002 10:37:13
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abbagail
YUCCA: I'm sorry to hear about your granddaughter. It's despicable the way the JWs defend their pedophiles. Did you send your story to Bill Bowen at Silent Lambs yet? It would be helpful to SilentLambs if all such first-hand accounts such as you and your family experienced are made known to Bill. You can send him the info "anonymously" via the "Pinpoint A Pedophile" form at the silentlambs website: www.silentlambs.org --- or you can send him a direct email: [email protected] -- or -- you can call him #1-877-WT-ABUSE. --- Thanks for sharing, and Take Care of yourself and your granddaughter!
JOHNNY! Hey, thanks guy! for reading the report! I haven't had much time to hang out over at SL lately, but I miss you guys! Also, thanks for the offer re: NY. I appreciate it! but it's not just $$ getting in the way. Not sure I could physically keep up with the pace all day or several days, etc. I've barely recovered from going to Orlando last week! :-/ But, hey, listen: The brother I wrote about in Orlando, well, he IS flying to NY early the morning of 9-27-02, he leaves ORL. around 5 am. He had already gotten his ticket, $202 I think he said it was. And he has to fly back the same day because he cannot afford to miss work the next day. Even though he was raised a JW and he has JW family in NY, I do not think he plans to hang-out with them. He mentioned something about taking cabs everywhere once he got up there in NY. Maybe I could email him and tell him to email you if he really planned NOT to hook-up with his JW family and could use a ride, etc. AND if that would be OK with you if I pass on your offer to him? Whattaya say? Thanks John!!!
DIA: I really do not think your suspicions re: the Philippines are so far off. I had thought the SAME thing myself. There is so much in the news right now, not just the Philippines, but I mean the whole 9/11 anniversary, and Bush is campaigning all over the place; and England and the US wanting war with Iraq; and Bush is also having his first ever CHILD SAFETY CONFERENCE in DC on 9-24-02; so there is so much NEWS in the NEWS that I also thought some other news event could take precedence and drown out the Lambs March, including, but not limited to the JW hostages in the Philippines (and yes, SYN, it wouldn't surprise me if the GB would stoop that low!). And, Dia, that WOULD BE GREAT if the Marchers on 9-27 could have posters with BIG PICTURES of the GB's Individual FACES!!! Probably any Print Shop or Photo Shop could copy them off the net and make them into poster size.
What's with Queenie's comment? Most of her stuff always seems off the wall, no offense Q! Maybe I am misreading it, but not sure I comprehendo... One man canNOT possibly do EVERYTHING. Focusing on ONE BIG ISSUE like SIlentLambs, isn't that enough for one man to handle? The other 5,999,999 JWs around the world are welcome to stand up and take the lead on OTHER JW/WTS issues if they like! :-)
MACKIN: What does IIRC stand for? And thanks for the tip about the GB living in Patterson. I'm sure Bill would have known that, right? Maybe Bill felt having the March right in Brooklyn would be best because that is such a VISUAL well-known landmark that even worldly people are aware of as being the world HQ for JWs. I dunno. I'm assuming Bill knew what he was doing when he decided on Brooklyn. But it would be a shame if all of the GB were up in Patterson snoozing around 2:30 pm after their having had a nice big lunch up on the farm! ----- Maybe they will merely send one of their WT ATTORNEYS down to the Lambs March to give a statement. Whatcha wanna bet??? :-)
Hey TTBoy! Hope you can make it from Cleveland! And loved your SIGNS! LOL! Especially #1 = Molesters Bring a 2nd Witness! LOL! ----- Regarding any newspaper ads re: the March -- not unless somebody coughs up some BIG BUCKS. Ads don't come cheap, unfortunately... :-(
JT: When the PR Dept. told the media (see quote above) that they WOULD BE releasing a STATEMENT that day, I suppose that could mean they will do it the way they always have, i.e., COWARDLY and NOT IN PERSON, but merely release a Statement to the Press via phone, fax, email, etc., and as you say, maybe they will NOT send one solitary SOUL down to the street to FACE the lambs and their supporters in person. ---- But as you wrote (and it made me laugh), if they won't meet with the lambs/marchers in front of their building, then, Hey, Guys, WE'LL SEE YOU IN COURT!!!
c5:
They probably will issue the same stupid statements they have been saying since this whole scandal came up. They will take the role as the innocent God-Fearing group recieving trouble from disgruntled former members. They will also probably take this oppourtunity to reaffirm their faith, as they believe this will be fullfilling bible prophecy.
c5: I suspect you are correct in that assessment! Also true that at LEAST some uninformed JWs and uninformed worldlies will have their eyes opened. And the March in itself will make the lambs feel better, just participating in it. If the GB refuses to meet/greet/apologize/acknowledge, etc. etc., well, like I wrote to JT above, I betcha they all end up in Court sooner or later re: the database.
UNDisfellowshipped: Thanks for those scriptures and thoughts! And don't forget all of the "incest" laws in Leviticus! I didn't do an exhaustive search, but this is what I remembered from my days in the KHall. Though not all sex abuse is by a blood relative, the fact that incest, etc. was covered in Leviticus Chapter 18... close enough for me!
Leviticus 18:6: "You people must not come near, any man of you, to any close fleshly relative of his to lay bare nakedness. I am Jehovah." (Even though it says, "any man of you," the principle would apply to those who may not have reached full manhood yet, I would think).
Sibling "Sex Abuse": Lev. 18:9: "As for the nakedness of your sister, the daughter of your father or the daughter of your mother, whether born in the same household or born outside it, you must not lay bare their nakedness."
"Sex Abuse" by a Grandfather: Lev. 18:10: "As for the nakedness of the daughter of your son or the daughter of your daughter, you must not lay bare their nakedness, because they are your nakedness."
Step-Family/Sibling "Sex Abuse": Lev. 18:11: "As for the nakedness of the daughter of your father's wife, the offspring of your father, she being your sister, you must not lay bare her nakedness."
(vs. 12-13-14-15-16 deals with aunts, uncles, daughters-in-law, sisters-in-law).
"Sex Abuse" with Mothers & Daughters & Granddaughters: Lev. 18:17: "The nakedness of a woman and her daughter you must not lay bare. The daughter of her son [granddaughter] and the daughter of her daughter [granddaughter] you must not take in order to lay her nakedness bare. They are cases of blood relationship. It is loose conduct."
(There may be other scriptures that apply in principle, i.e., not to lay down with father's wife -- in reverse that would be "sex abuse" of the wife with the son; and the scriptures of men lying with men -- at whatever age, in principle, would be the same as "sex abuse" of boys).
"Do not make yourselves unclean by any of these things, because by all these things the nations whom I am sending out from before you have made themselves unclean. Consequently the land is unclean, and I shall bring punishment for its error upon it, and the land will vomit its inhabitants out. And you yourselves must keep my statutes and my judicial decisions, and you must not do any of all these detestable things, whether a native or an alien resident who is residing as an alient in your midst. For all these detestable things the men of the land who were before you have done, so that the land is unclean.... In case anyone DOES any of all these detestable things, then the souls doing them must be cut off from among their people. And you must keep your obligation to me not to carry on any of the detestable customs that have been carried on before you, that you may not make yourselves unclean by them. I am Jehovah your God." (Lev. 18:24-30)
Grits
Edited by - Grits on 9 September 2002 12:24:33
Edited by - Grits on 9 September 2002 12:25:48
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Mackin
Grits,
IIRC means "If I Remember Correctly. See: http://www.sharpened.net/glossary/acronyms.php
I think it's very possible that the GB will stay in Patterson and send a laywer down to Brooklyn with "permission to look out the window" When I visited there in '98 Patterson was about a 2 hr drive upstate from NYC.
Mackin.