by hillary_step 44 Replies latest jw friends
WHY DO WE ?
The thread sounds like, "we've waited on jehovah, and He hasn't come up with the goods we want, so He's an asshole"
Meanwhile, we stuff our faces on stolen lands, fill the earth with pollution..yada yada
The question should probably be, "why do we join in packs of people who do wicked things, rather than go against it?"
Jesus, the greatest social advocate of His time.
paduan
Jesus, the greatest social advocate of His time.
So, you mean if I spend three years walking around telling people how to live their lives I'll be a modern day hero? HOLD ME BACK!!!!!
I'm sorry, but if I remember correctly, Jesus' words were mostly re-writes and plagarised material from intellectuals who existed before he did.
So how is it he gets the credit? And who is the 'greatest social advocate of our time?' (PLEASE don't say Louis Farrakhan.)
Lisa
Well, if you healed the sick in your area, fed thousands of people, told off the gb, and got together a band of people to do the same, you'd probably be called a social advocate too.
The wt are only interested in talk.
And I should add, you could stay at home and help your parents until your an adult, and then go out and work more.
paduan
The greatest of our time - well, I'm not sure but I can think of a few. Martin Luther King, Mother Teresa, Dorothy Day, Shanana Goosmou (however you spell that)....
Edited by - a paduan on 10 September 2002 2:15:45
This reminds me of an old Star Trek episode where Kirk et al were forced onto a planet by this big egocentric guy dressed like Zeus and he wouldn't let anybody go until they all worshipped him. Nobody was allowed to think for themselves because he had all the answers and would give all those who kowtowed to him everything their corrupt little hearts desired. Of course Jim figured out Zues' weakness and saved the day, so I figure we just have to wait until stardate year whatever and some space guys will come and rescue us all. Meanwhile; back at the ranch....
CIAO4NIAO!!
alfie
I believe all the physical creation is truly in image and likeness of the condition of God and of heaven.
If wild animals were created on earth, there are wild animals (demons) loose in heaven.
If there were "domestic" animals and pets on earth, there would be "domestics" in heaven. (angels)
If God created things that can bug us (insects), there are things in heaven that bug Him. (demons)
If we were created with a sense of pain, God must be also be in and sense pain.
If we were created to die, a piece of God would have to die too.
I believe the time gone by was to build LAW, implement the LAW, fulfill the LAW, and bring the LAW into heaven,
a place where there never was any LAW, so LAW can be applied to Satan and his demons, being who NEVER knew
or had to obey any LAW.
Are far as the length of time goes: Now that the tree of good and bad is full grown (which took time), there must be the wait for the fruit to become ripe, a time that only the True Arborist can know. Once the fruit is truly ripe, then there is the harvest.
That's what I believe.
Edited by - pomegranate on 10 September 2002 7:34:10
Scarlet, I loved your post...and I agree. Why not think about the good! If all I thought about was the bad, I would crawl up in a hole and never come out. I've really been trying to adjust my thinking, and not just think of the bad. I know that theres alot of pain in this world, and we've all had more than our share, but I really try to take each and every day and think of positive things....enjoy the little things and not take anything for granted. It's tough to do sometimes, but I try.
To give Peter Popoff a job.
I don't believe God exists.
G'day all,
This thread has been up for about three days, so now I guess it's time for Ozzie's contribution!
I must say that a topic such as this makes me a very happy old ozzie! We seem to be going through a very thoughtful and thought-provoking stage on JWD and I must thank y'all for that. Makes me feel really good.
A number of responses on this thread strike a chord with me, and I wouldn't wish to simply re-hash what someone else has written, so may I add two points from Scripture.
Firstly, Christians believe they're living in a fallen world, as do the Dubs. Why does life have to be this way? Try this: pain and negative emotions are absolutely essential to draw our attention to God and things eternal. At the close of his dialogue with God about suffering, Job stated, "My ears had heard of you but now my eyes have seen you" (Job 42:5) Our observation is that we come to a realisation of our need for God, not when things in life are going well, but when we have reached the "depths". The dubs recognise that, too, and seek to find those who are "sighing and groaning", i.e. going through some sort of crisis.
The second point I'd make is this: A corollary to the qusetion "Does Pain Have a Purpose?" might be "Is God really good?". In Romans 8, Paul equates the groaning and suffering of creation with childbirth, not death. Maybe that's a clue about pain's purpose. We can think about the pain a mother experiences in childbirth and acknowledge that, as intense and powerful as that pain is, it's usually relieved the moment a healthy baby is placed in the mother's arms. Our pain, like that of childbirth, exists for what comes after the pain, so that we experience God and may eventually realize that this pain-filled life is short in comparison to a pain-free life of eternity with God.
Recommended reading: When God Doesn't Make Sense by James Dobson (Tyndale House, 1993
and
Know the Truth by Bruce Milne [2nd ed.](Inter Varsity Press, 1998 )
Cheers, Ozzie
Ozzie,
I am quietly pondering. Your point regarding Romans 8 and the whole of creation going through 'birth pains' towards some great event of universal 'birth' is interesting. It certainly makes more sense than the idea than only man has fallen from grace with God, which suppresses an acknowledgment of the sheer brutality of the natural world.
The reason for starting this thread was to acknowledge the fact that all trains of thought that try to understand this problem are interpretive and subsequently cannot be relied on as absolute truth. They are at least able to self-convince, but often do not stand the test of philosophical or scientific scrutiny. Added to this unsteadiness of doctrine, is that a certain level of conscious intellectuality is required even to begin to fathom the issue at hand, which pre-supposes that God, during the less enlightened days of pre-history was prepared to allow those ignorant of his designs to suffer in his silence.
Another reason I raised this issue is that a poster on a previous thread stated in essence, "Well, I have left the WTS, but now tell me, what is right and what is wrong?" It seems to me that true spiritual maturity lies in the phrase, never to be heard in WTS literature, "We do not know". As I get older, and naturally know less about life than I did the year before...lol, I find that I take pleasure in enjoying the mystery that lies at the root of science, creativity and nature without trying to define its direction. It seems to know its direction, and seems to keep us in ignorance of its plans, perhaps for good reason. The reason is the search.
As faith is not a science but an art, perhaps it truly is the looking glass through which we try to give shape to the mystery.
Tell us more about Romans 8 Ozzie - HS
Edited by - hillary_step on 12 September 2002 12:7:1
>>Try this: pain and negative emotions are absolutely essential to draw our attention to God and things eternal.<<
So what drew attention to God and things eternal before pain and negative emotions?
Are you saying pain and negative emotions have always been and always will be, just so they can draw attention to God and things eternal?
typo
Edited by - pomegranate on 11 September 2002 22:59:5
