Stigmata!

by FiveShadows 34 Replies latest jw friends

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  VeniceIT

  AHHH Stigmata!!! Our neighbors had us watch this about a year or so ago, they were really freaked out and watned to know what we thought. So we put the movie and started watching it. My initial reaction was "wow isn't this a wonderful provision, bleeding and in agony from the would Jesus suffered, that's such a blessing". I wouldn't want to belive in anyone that I thought would do that to people, I thought that was sick. Halfway through I turned to mom and said, "do you suppose they're referring to the Book of Thomas"? So we waited and sure enough it was. So after the movie I went and grabbed my copy of 'the book of Thomas' and we read it over (short book). It read like the other gospel, we couldn't see where anything had been added that would offend the church, or that was not in the other gospels. It contained the parables, a few new ones but nothing out of the ordinary. Later we realized that it's not what the book of Thomas CONTAINED, it's what it DID NOT contain. It only had parables, there were NO references to any miracles of any kind, or anything that would suggest Jesus was anything more then a man. This is what could not be released!!!! Hundreds of like manuscripts were found with the Isaiah Dead Scrolls, that are just now coming to light (yes hundreds). They have all be kept in careful concealment until now. They are soon to be released to the researchers and hopefully to the general public shortly. They say they've been detained because of how they will affect the Gospel accounts and the rest of the Bible. There's a good book available now called 'The Deception of the Dead Sea Scrolls' that goes into more detail. Also anyone can download a copy of the 'book of Thomas' simply search for it online and download it (it's a very small book), just make sure to get it in English . Ven

  Edited by - VeniceIT on 16 September 2002 13:9:31
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  Yerusalyim

  Muddled message at best from this movie in my opinion.

  OVERBEER,

  The piece you included about Stigmatics was interesting. The parts quoted about Padre Pio were inaccurate at best. The "no sign of edema or penetration" is taken a bit out of context from the report submitted. There was also an athiest doctor who examined the wounds and found them to be true wounds, then he wrapped the wounds in bandages and put a seal on the bandage so he could see if was tampered with, after eight days he unwrapped the wounds (having inspected the bandage daily) and there was absolutely no healing of the wounds at all. This athiest doctor said the wounds involved the dermal and epidermal layers. After 50 years of wearing such wounds, they would have left some type of scar, yet, none were found when he died. The bandages were collected and tested, they were stained with human blood.

  Padre Pio wore gloves because he was embarrassed by the wounds. That and the fact that they were rather unsightly. From about 1920 on he was ordered to not show them unless ordered to do so, he was obedient to that. There was a time when the Vatican also would not allow him to say mass publically, or to communicate with any of his "spiritual children" or his spiritual advisor. Study the mans life a bit, he's a saint.
• 

  MegaDude

  There is no evidence the stigmata is real, or that Padre Pio's stigmata was real.....

  unless you're a Catholic. *shutter*
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  Salud

  Being out of the organization has afforded me to do a lot of research and study of this subject. What I am finding out is that the New Testament was never considered inspired until the 3rd or 4th centuries. In fact there are over 150 books that were being circulated around that time that were considered just as important if not more than what we have in the Bible today. The book of Revelation was considered by many of the 'church fathers' who put the Bible together as a book of someone gone mad. It was not totally considered a part of the Bible cannon until 400 years ago. Also there was a Revelation of Peter and Paul as well? Where are these books?

  What I am finding out is that the Christian faith as it is known today is a sham and by-product of the Roman empire to suppress the Jews. In fact that book Ven mentions 'Dead Sea Scrolls Deception' alludes to the fact that Paul might have been an agent for the Roman empire to promote this new found faith called Christianity. It was meant to control people, and it has done a very good job if I have to say so myself.

  Salud

  Proud to be Pagan
• 

  Yerusalyim

  MEGADUDE,

  Actually, Padre Pio's Stigmata is quite throughly documented medically. What caused the wounds, and what caused them to remain for 50 years can not be ascertained. That the wounds existed, bled, and didn't heal is a fact that is really beyond dispute. No medical explanation has been offered, even by the Athiest doctor that examined the wounds for eight days. He thought it was a neurotic disorder, but the psychological autopsy doesn't indicate that Pio suffered from Nuerosis. The comment above that Pio was emotionally disturbed as a youth is undocumented. Those that knew him said he was an ordinary kid who prayed.
• 

  MegaDude

  YERU,

  If you believe Padre Pio's stigmata was a bonified miracle from God, or even that Mary appeared in a tortilla, that the Pope is infallible, or that Catholic Church is God's church, I don't have a problem with that. Your reality is *your* reality.
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  Yerusalyim

  MEGADUDE,

  I wasn't addressing my personal belief about the wounds that Padre Pio carried. I was addressing the medical fact, documented by numerous doctors, including an athiest, that the wounds existed, didn't heal, and couldn't be explained medically. What we all make of that is a personal thing, but that the wounds existed is a documented fact.
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  VeniceIT

  Ok let's say the Stigmata is real. What kind of miricle is that???? When did Jesus ever preforma miricle that hurt people, or was vulger, and caused pain??????

  This to me does not fit at all to the Jesus of the Bible. I don't see how it's a good thing.

  Ven
• 

  MegaDude

  I have a whisker stigmata. If I don't shave, I grow a beard like Jesus.
• 

  Yerusalyim

  Venice,

  Miracles that hurt? Generally speaking those who have the stigmata have tried to identify with the suffering and passion of Christ. Remember, all the apostles but one were martyred. Paul says, "I make up in my own flesh what is lacking in the suffering of Christ" That doesn't mean that Christ's sacrafice is not sufficient, but that we gain something by being joined to his suffering. Again, I insist that no one accept the stigmata, nor are Catholics required to believe the phenomenon is a miracle.