Stigmata! (page 3)

MegaDude

YERU,

If Padre Pio really bled, then he may have inflicted the wounds himself. Whether Pio's wounds were really documented and verified by doctors or scientists, I don't know. Many claims such as that are found to be erroneous.

I've read a bit about Padre Pio, but not extensively. I know it is claimed he physically wrestled with demons also and fought them in his sleeping quarters at night. I read that on his official website years ago.

But the "miracle" of the stigmata makes no sense to me. Like Venice said, why would devotion to God result in a curse or a painful miracle? The whole stigmata claim seems set up to draw attention to one's self or ego. Of what spiritual benefit is it to even clue you in that it would come from God?

Do you at least give consideration to the fact that it may be a fraud, or that Padre Pio inflicted the wounds on himself?

MegaDude

Here is the official Padre Pio website.

http://www.padrepio.it/ing/vita.htm

Here is the American site with his story and pics of his wounds:

http://www.padrepio.com/

Don't forget to buy your "Lady of Perpetual Help" medal at the online Padre Pio giftshop!

Country Girl

It could be that the symptoms of the Stigmata were present, but the wounds could have been merely produced by the person's deep and emotional passion at the death of Christ. The mind can do powerful things to the body: healing or destroying it.

Country Girl

P.S. Once you sign up on the Padre Pio site to read about him, you will get email forever. Also, if you put in your real address, you can get some dynamite mail from them with great photos and stuff. Just a word of caution.. heheheh.

Yerusalyim

Megadude,

You said,

If Padre Pio really bled, then he may have inflicted the wounds himself. Whether Pio's wounds were really documented and verified by doctors or scientists, I don't know. Many claims such as that are found to be erroneous.

Is it POSSIBLE Pio inflicted the wounds? Sure, I admit that. The Vatican originally thought this to be the case too and tried to suppress Pio, however, an athiest doctor examined the wounds, bound them, and sealed the bandages, examining the seals every day to ensure the bandages weren't tampered with. After eight days the wounds showed NO SIGN of healing, and in fact bled more when unwrapped, then when they were wrapped.

Were the wounds really documented by doctors? Yes, the reports are still available.

You said,

The whole stigmata claim seems set up to draw attention to one's self or ego.

Those who knew Pio testify the exact opposite of this. He apparently went to pains to avoid anyone seeing them. Someone seeking attention or ego don't generally join monastic orders.

Of what spiritual benefit is it to even clue you in that it would come from God?

You find no spiritual benefits in joining yourself to the suffering of Christ?

Do you at least give consideration to the fact that it may be a fraud, or that Padre Pio inflicted the wounds on himself?

In a word...YES. That's why I looked at available evidence. Padre Pio is the most well documented case of stigmata out there. Have YOU at least considered the possibility that it's a miracle?

Edited by - Yerusalyim on 17 September 2002 12:35:17

MegaDude

YERU,

Sure I consider the possibilities of miracles. It was a *&^%$ miracle I got out of bed this morning. Ok, kidding.

I can't say I've seen a miracle, just like I've never seen an alien, nor a demon, nor a Yeti, Big Foot, or a Loch Ness monster or abominable snowman. Nor have I seen a river open up so I can pass through it. I can't summon plagues of locusts on my enemies. Whatever. Therefore, I can't say I believe in miracles. My charismatic friends say they happen all the time, but when I asked to actually see a physical miracle take place in front of my eyes, they were unable to produce one. Rats. I so wanted to see one.

The bottom line is Padre Pio's so-called miracle is not verifiable by you or me. Therefore, we have to rely on what other people say or testify to. There are plenty of unexplained things in this world. There are also plenty of religious whackos. Take a hard look at the people who usually testify that they believe and have witnessed miracles. You'll get my point.

I believe there is plenty of suffering in this world without having the wounds of Christ inflicted on your physical body. Take Mother Theresa and her lifelong dedication to the suffering poor of that hellhole called Calcutta. What Pio's miracle did was bring a lot of attention to Padre Pio and his church. That's why I called it egocentric. I'm sure it was quite profitable for them. But the Catholic Church is full of mystical stories like this one, and I don't give them any creedence either. At least not any more than I would to seeing the Virgin Mary appear on a tortilla as a sign from God.

Venice

You find no spiritual benefits in joining yourself to the suffering of Christ?

Ummm No. I don't feel that's what Jesus taught at all, it's not loveing it's horrific.

ven

Yerusalyim

"Whoever does not take up his cross and follow after me is not worthy of me."

Megadude, you're a cynic to the end. Good for you. Then again, maybe the only way to be able to see miracles is to believe in them.

Pio, with his vow of poverty, accepted no money, etc, he did, however, prove instrumental in building a hospital at San Giovani Rotondo that has served thousands of poor and destitute. That sounds pretty good to me.

Countrygirl, I accept your explanation as quite plausable, but, if this phenomenon brings people to Christ then it can't be all bad.

Edited by - Yerusalyim on 17 September 2002 14:11:27

VeniceIT

ok 'taking up a cross' and having woulds bleed from you perfusly are entirely different things.

If I was to die a horrible death I would want people to remember ME what I did and acoplished who I was I would NOT WANT THEM to have to suffer the same things, and that's just me as a human, not as the Son of a 'loving' God.

Ven

MegaDude

YERU,

I am not a cynic. I am an ex-Jehovah's Witness. LOL!

Stigmata!

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