I Can`t Get To Grips With This FDS Thing.

by Englishman 20 Replies latest jw friends

  • Englishman
    Englishman

    I`m trying to understand the process by which JW`s link the "Faithful and discreet slave" parable to a belief that this refers to a number of people who will go to heaven ie: 144,000.

    Also, I am trying to understand how, by extension, some of this number comprise a "Governing body" that is at the top of "Jehovahs earthly organisation".

    I really dont understand how these conclusions are reached and would appreciate some input. Please note that when I posted this question on H20 some months ago I received only 1 reply from Friday, who saw fit to ridicule me for my lack of knowledge on this subject. I still don`t know the answer!

    Englishman.

  • Fredhall
    Fredhall

    Keep on trying Englishman. You will get it one day.

  • Englishman
    Englishman

    HELLO FRED HALL!!!

    Just take me through the reasoning process that leads you to the conclusion that the 144,000 are the "faithful and discreet slave".

    If I only receive mockery then many will assume that there is no reasoning process behind this belief.

    Whats it to be Fred Hall?

    (a) A logical explanation?

    (b) Derision a la Friday?

    (c) No answer at all?

    Englishman.

    Edited by - Englishman on 24 March 2001 15:27:18

  • MDS
    MDS

    Hi "Englishman":

    I`m trying to understand the process by which JW`s link the "Faithful and discreet slave" parable to a belief that this refers to a number of people who will go to heaven ie: 144,000...Also, I am trying to understand how, by extension, some of this number comprise a "Governing body" that is at the top of "Jehovahs earthly organisation"...I really dont understand how these conclusions are reached and would appreciate some input. Please note that when I posted this question on H20 some months ago I received only 1 reply from Friday, who saw fit to ridicule me for my lack of knowledge on this subject. I still don`t know the answer!

    This is a good question!

    Actually, you have revealed something here...

    ...the "Faithful Slave" as mentioned Matthew 24:45-47 IS NOT the same as the "144,000" of Revelation 7th and 14th chapters.

    Most Bible readers do have a hard time believing that there has been only "144,000" faithful followers of Jesus, since Pentecost down to 1935, the time WTS says the "heavenly call" was discontinued.

    It is not a sound belief at all.

    Originally, the WTS, under CT Russell, really wanted to say that the first President of the WTS was the "Faithful Slave." Since, he was in total control of what went into print, total control of the entire "belief System" of the "International Bible Students" ... up until his death in 1916.

    Still, many in the organization BELIEVED that Russell was that "Slave." That's why many left the organization, when he died. Many were called "Russellites," "Millenial Dawners," and so forth. There was essentially, a break in the organization, because of this belief...after Russell died, in 1916...some left the organization.

    Judge Rutherford, maintained that the "Faithful Slave," and "domestics," were one in the same, and so was, in reality, the congregation of anointed, which at that time, did comprise the congregation supposed up until 1935. Everyone was thought to be of the anointed at that time, up till then.

    However, they "invented" the thought that the "mouthpiece" of the FD&S was the Headquarters staff, the G.B. and so forth. Supposedly, the WTS proxy holders of the Corporation, was some 500 original members of the "anointed congregation." But that has greatly changed...these supposedly were the ones that made the decisions at the Annual Corporate Meetings and appointed who would "take the lead" from among the Anointed Members or congregation. The "proxy-holders" were there actually, as a "rubberstamp" of what had already been decided by the higher-ups and have never had a "voice," in anything.

    There really is no connection between the "144,000" and the "Faithful Slave," scripturally, that can be proven. The doctrine IS NOT sound, to start with...especially the part about the "Domestics" being same as the "Slave," ... so that the "Slave," is "appointed over," himself, or the "Domestics." This does not make good sense.

    Obviously a lot could be said on this topic...and I did not try to cover everything...but if you have more questions, I'd be happy to respond on this topic.

    Take Care,

    MDS

    Edited by - MDS on 24 March 2001 15:31:12

  • Bruce144
    Bruce144

    Hi Englishman,

    I think after the failed date of 1975 the GB took over all decision making regardless of other's thoughts, to avoid another obvious embarrassment. But their own power allowed only their light to shine putting out any other possible light from others of the 144,000. One case in point is that the 144,000 are replacing the fallen angels. It will be brought out and very soon by a miraculous event.

  • neyank
    neyank

    Hi MDS,
    That's a very good answer to a very good question.
    neyank

  • RN
    RN

    Englishman,

    When my husband and I left about 5 years ago, he spent a year researching and writing. This was one of the subjects he wrote about. At one time he had a website with this info posted, but a Free Bible Student friend of ours hosts many of the articles now. So I'll post a few links to some things that you might find helpful.

    Go here: www.cqlcorp.com/fbs/pages/4jws/fds.htm

    or here: www.cqlcorp.com/fbs/Research/Chr-perspect/org.htm

    (or should I say I'll attempt to post links) Been enjoying your posts for quite some time. Keep 'em coming.

    RN

  • Englishman
    Englishman

    MDS & Bruce,

    Thank you for your replies. It seems to me that, if Russel thought that he might well be the FDS, and that later on, JW`s applied this teaching to the "144,000", then the `linking process` to the identity of the FDS is very, very unclear.

    If Russel, then Rutherford, differ in their ideas as to exactly who / what the FDS actually is, it seems to me to be a perfectly reasonable reaction for modern day dubs to reject the authority of the FDS.

    If 2 WT presidents cant agree on who this FDS actually is, is it not unreasonable for the WTBTS to demand of its members respect for their interpretation of the identity of the FDS?

    Englishman - wondering if JW`s even believe in the FDS!

  • Lolieworm
    Lolieworm

    I can just say that when I saw the subject line, I thought you were talking about Female Deodereant Spray. That is until I read the posts.

  • Englishman
    Englishman

    The counter says that this page has been read 162 times. Not one person has so far said anything to support the WT`s interpretation of this parable.

    The only person to attempt to defend the WT`s viewpoint was Fred Hall, but, as is usual when he can`t understand something, Fred descended to personal insults and has now run from the board until the post fades away.

    Isn`t it incredible that this belief in the FDS class, which is at the very core of dubbism, cannot be substantiated by anyone?

    Last month, I put the same post on H20 and not one person was able to show that the FDS parable was connected in anyway to the 144,000.

    Yet some persons give up their lives in obedience to the Governing body section of this fictional FDS class that shouldn`t even be in existence!

    Englishman

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