I Can`t Get To Grips With This FDS Thing.

by Englishman 20 Replies latest jw friends

  • ozziepost
    ozziepost

    This is how the reference book "Insight on the Scriptures" article explains the connection (p806)
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    The question remains concerning the application of the figure of the faithful and discreet slave, or steward, and what his dispensing food to the domestics represents.

    Commentators often view this as a general exhortation to any and all who have individual positions of responsibility in the Christian congregation. The requirement of faithfulness in discharging responsibility clearly applies to all such. (Compare Mt 25:14-30; Tit 1:7-9.) Yet, the impossibility of each and every one of these individuals being placed over “all” his master’s belongings at the same time, the time of the master’s arrival, is obvious. This, however, does not require that the “slave” prefigure only one particular person who would be so privileged. The Scriptures contain examples of the use of a singular noun to refer to a collective group, as when Jehovah addressed the collective group of the Israelite nation and told them: “You are my witnesses [plural], . . . even my servant [singular] whom I have chosen.” (Isa 43:10) Similarly, the figure of the unfaithful “evil slave” could apply to a collective group in the same way that “the antichrist” is shown to be a class made up of individual antichrists.—1Jo 2:18; 2Jo 7.

    Those forming the Christian congregation are referred to by the apostle Paul as “members of the household of God” (Eph 2:19; 1Ti 3:15), and the same apostle shows that ‘faithful stewardship’ among such household members involved the dispensing of spiritual truths on which those becoming believers would ‘feed.’ (1Co 3:2, 5; 4:1, 2; compare Mt 4:4.) Whereas this was a prime responsibility of those appointed as ‘shepherds’ of the flock (1Pe 5:1-3), the apostle Peter shows that such stewardship of the divine truths was actually committed to all the ‘chosen ones,’ all the spirit-anointed ones, of the Christian congregation. (1Pe 1:1, 2; 4:10, 11) Thus the entire anointed Christian congregation was to serve in a united stewardship, dispensing such truths. At the same time the individual members making up such composite body, or the “domestics” making up the “house” of God (Mt 24:45; Heb 3:6; Eph 2:19), would also be recipients of the “food” dispensed. (Heb 5:11-14; compare 1Co 12:12, 19-27.) Expanded responsibility would result from faithfulness maintained until the master’s promised ‘arrival.’—Mt 24:46, 47; Lu 12:43, 44.
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    Any comments, anyone?

    Ozzie

  • ZazuWitts
    ZazuWitts

    Just some thoughts:

    I was ten years old when my Mother started studying with the JWs. So, my association with the Borg started in the early 50's. There were many of the 'anointed' in our congregation. Trying to do a quick mental count I've come up with at least 14 names in my congregation alone. Came up with at least 8 more in other area congregations. Not a one of them had a 'clue' regarding 'new light' - all were just as eager as the rank-and-file publisher to see what Brooklyn was coming up with in terms of new understanding/mandates. They 'ooooed
    and awwwed' along with the 'lowlys.'

    So, Englishman 'incredible' is right on - this is way beyond ANY possible belief or understanding re the 'enlightened' so-called FDS class. Zeeesh!!!!

    Furthermore, there was never any talk about a 'governing body' - no, it was all Knorr, Knorr, Knorr and under him a
    few other 'prominent' names. Then, Franz, Franz, Franz and, again, a few other 'recognized' names. When people talked about the 'society' they were referring to Knorr, and later Franz - not a GB. That, of course, changed in the 70's...and Fred Franz didn't like it a bit.

    The whole concept of the Tower's FDS is beyond the pale - a total CROCK.

    And, did you ever consider a scenario like this - you could have been baptized when you were very young, say 10 or so, during the early to mid 30's - and you were one of the 144,000 - one of the FDS!!! EVER SO ENLIGHTENED. I personally knew a few that fell into that category. LOL
    CROCK - CROCK - CROCK

  • Thirdson
    Thirdson

    Hi E'man,

    You are not surprised that faithful JW's haven't replied? This is one of the least defendable doctrines. I posted some questions to the real JW's on Beliefnet. No one attempted to defend the doctrine or answer my questions. It is one of those beliefs that only gets defended at the Watchtower study when members read the statements from the paragraphs. Outside the Kingdom Hall the doctrine can't be explained. JW's would dismissively say, "its too deep for worldly people." Which is the coverall for anything that can't be defended but has to be accepted.

    Thirdson

    'To avoid criticism, say nothing, do nothing, be nothing'

  • waiting
    waiting

    This came up in another thread some time ago. I can't remember where the article (Questions from Readers) was or time, but the question being answered was:

    All of the first century christians were of the anointed. At least 3 thousand were baptized on one day. The word of Christ and his teaching were spread throughout the known world. In other words, there were literally thousands of christians even in that one time period. Now, at least some of their children would have continued in the christian way. Many, if not thousands, were killed for their faith, proving their loyalty to God.

    The WTBTS has always maintained that there has always been a person, small group of true believers on the earth. Again, many being killed for their faith in God. Even in CT Russell's time, there were thousands of jw's.

    The Question: But there are too many thousands of people of the centuries to justify there still being approx. 8,000 of the 144,000 on the earth. How does the WTBTS explain this phenomenon?

    The WTBTS explained that (paraphrasing) "we don't know that all those thousands of persons who died for their faith were really approved by God. Obviously not, because the WTBTS still has 8,000 active members of the Remnant."

    I think this is despicable. Questioning the authencity of a long-dead person's faith - particularily when they have been killed for it - to bolster up a weak doctrine.

    The problem is, if the WTBTS doesn't have any 144,000 - they also don't have any Faithful and Discreet Slave. 1914, 144,000, FDS - these doctrines are entertwined, if one falls - they all fall.

    And they are all falling.

    waiting

  • LovesDubs
    LovesDubs

    I dont have the references right now...but awhile back I received an explanation about why there still is "room" in the 144,000 for JWs even though there were hundreds of thousands of Christians in the first and subsequent centuries...the Society stated with regards to even those faithful "so-called" Christians who were eaten as martyrs by lions...since there was no record of their baptisms, there was therefore no reason to assume they really WERE Christians.

    How sick does THAT make you feel about ever being part of this cult?

  • trevor
    trevor

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  • trevor
    trevor

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  • Englishman
    Englishman

    Ozzie,

    The trouble with JW`s is that they leap around various Bible passages willy - nilly in the hope that others will be bamboozled into believing.

    Say that there could be 10 interpretations of any particular parable, then link this to another parable and so on, after connecting just 3 parables there are one thousand possible variations!

    Englishman.

  • perfectpie
    perfectpie

    The early movement believed Russell was the fullment of the 7th angel to the 7th congregation in the book of Revelation. The scripture in matt>24:45-47 was clearly an illustration exhorting christians to be awake and ready for Jesus at all times. Was Jesus in any way trying to identify a group in this passage? J.W's believe that the remaining ones of the 144,000 are the F.D.S. History tells us that there were around 10 million christians between the time of Christ and 3rd century. Yes, many were problematic and untrue but we have to imagine there were at least 144,000 true christians before Russell ever entered the picture. If you read the passages that talk about the 144,000 the idea of symbolisium is obvious. I'll stop blahing but I am with you on the F.D.S. it seems a little strange, but really up to par with this group, but a cult has to acquire some sort of authoritaive figurement in order to control the rest. Chow

  • Zechariah
    Zechariah

    Hi Englishman,

    Fancy meeting you here.

    The following is my own personal meditations of the subject of the FDS:

    My comment on the FDS is that the concept was created merely to justify the creation of a clergy class and a ecclesiastical hierarchy that is denounced in scripture.

    The parable about the faithful and dicreet slave was merely an encouragement for christians to be faithful and discreet. It was not in any way a prophecy.

    The kingdom of Christ only indirectly rules the earth. That which they rule over is spiritual. The numbers of spiritual entities for which these Kings and Priests will rule far exceeds by quantum leaps the population of the earth. The nations as prophecied in order to prosper have to submit themselves to Christ rulership by submitting to his spirit. Christians were instructed that their battles should not be against flesh and blood. Clearly Christ concentrations are on are on the spirit rulers of the air which have no physical boundaries.

    The Battle of Armaggeddon is not and never was intended to be a battle against flesh and blood. It rather is a spiritual battle good against evil. Though using physical descriptions the Bible is speaking of the destruction of demon spirits not fleshly as God desires no man to die but to be turned around.

    It is totally fleshly thinking to believe God is going to literally wrestle governments from humans.

    The 144,000 is for sure a spiritual, representative number. When speaking of spirit things why would literal numbers be employed. The number 12 (heavenly completeness) is use by a multiple of 12 x 1000 (also represents completeness). In essence the scripture is making reference to the absolute total number of all those who exercise faith in Christ. As a reward for their faith comes a realization they are spirit creatures physically embodied. They are created in the image of God (spirit) kin to the angels. As spirit sons of God they are royalty destined to be kings themselves. At death they have the prospect of return to the natural home of all spirits (heaven).

    That is the only resurrection promised (not fleshly however pleasant the thought may be). When one is born again by faith he is instantly dies and is resurrected from a physical man to a spiritual never to die again (spiritually). The things seen are temporary by nature only the spirit is everlasting. Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot destroy body and soul forever.

    I am thankful to God to free of spiritual boundage to the WTS so I can find real truth.

    Zechariah

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