ladies , its not just me, is it?..

by sowhatnow 20 Replies latest social relationships

  • sowhatnow
    sowhatnow

    ok ladies,
    has there been any documented studies on the role religion or society plays in keeping women in an economical and social disadvantaged state ?
    Im wondering how many other women out there in the world, who either being raised or being long term followers of a strict religious faith,with traditional family structures, have upon either divorce or death of a spouse find it nearly impossible to find a mate or economic stability , and live out the remainder of their lives struggling and either bouncing from one guy to another, being disappointed or used, or simply alone.
    I have personally felt, that I, being a xjw and now divorced woman , with no ‘acceptable’ work skills,[ ie: fancy resume with degrees] living of low wage part time work and barely any alimony , will simply be viewed as someone trying to get another man to support her.
    wanting to have a marriage mate, is more for the reasons of love and companionship and family, belonging, not simply for the reason of having a home and support.
    I see many profiles of men on dating sites, where they have the statement
    “ she should be an independent career minded woman who knows what she wants”
    to mean little more to me than ‘ have your own job and money‘ they are not looking to be married.
    many are up front in saying they want just to date or have sex or short/long term relationships.
    men who are over 45 typically are homeowners, and have good paying jobs, relative security in a company, and college degrees, they simply do not NEED a woman for any other reason than sex. And for many women who are quite independent , that also would be the case.
    I have found with the two men i dated, that they have trouble finding things to talk about, they have basically lived their lives, raised kids, worked, did all the globetrotting, the vacation fun stuff, more or less, you see all the photos of their vacations ect, reaching retirement, and now they cannot express what exactly it is that they want, In fact having so little to say of any meaning. they often have been living alone for years, are addicted to tv, or work, [have an established weekly ‘schedule’, they wont deviate from even to date,] and so the typical housewife duties are not needed from a woman. i found
    both of them saying the same line to me,
    ‘ Im looking for honesty, companionship, and commitment”
    while not providing that themselves for the woman they date! .
    going through how many, looking for what, I think they do not know.
    the assumption, that women like myself, who left a loveless marriage, and has lost most of her material assets, pets, extended family members, now struggles to pay bills in a tiny apartment, are not viewed as ‘good loving mates‘ but taking on someones OLD BURDENS. so far Ive not been given the chance to show what sort of person I am. they see my situation a it is now and draw a conclusion in their minds as to my motive.
    this mentality, is damaging to women in general. for I have always felt that way in my marriage for the past 35 years. that i was just another chore, that had to be dealt with.
    which seems more likely, society, or religion, or both? that has forced these social troubles on us?

    just curious, is it me, or everyone else, lol am I doing it all wrong?

  • LisaRose
    LisaRose

    I don't think you are far wrong, I have heard many men here express similar things, women are just looking for a meal ticket, just lazy, gold diggers, etc., but I think you just need to keep looking, you can't judge all men because of two clunkers. There are probably lots of men who would be happy to find a nice woman, even if she didn't make a lot of money. A lot of men don't even want a career driven woman.

    You also might want to think bout what you might bring to a relationship other than money. You can't change the past and where you are right now financially, but what are your strengths? What are you passionate about? What are you bringing to a potential relationship? Are there interests you have that you did not explore because of being a JW? Can you take a class, or join an interest group? That's a great way to meet like minded people.

    Are you self conscious of your current financial situation? Do you think men are judging you because you don't make a lot of money? If so it could be that what is turning them off is not your lack of money, it's your lack of confidence. How can you expect someone else to value you if you don't value yourself? You are more than your income, and a person who is self confident and happy is much more attractive to others. Everyone has gifts they can bring to the world, so figure out what yours are and even if you don't meet anyone you will be a lot happier and more self cconfident.

  • John Aquila
    John Aquila
    I see many profiles of men on dating sites, where they have the statement
    “ she should be an independent career minded woman who knows what she wants”


    I’m not a lady but I wanted to tell you a story. Sometime back- I hired this old man to cut the grass for my mom’s lawn. He didn’t even have a lawn mower, so I let him use mine.

    He was complaining all the time and I basically had to do most of the work because after he would cut a section of grass, but he would chase me down and ask me to pick up the grass bag and empty it because it was too heavy for him. Every 30 minutes he would lie down and smoke a cigarette. Finally when I caught him going to the bathroom behind the shed I paid him and told him to go.

    Before he left he asked for a glass of water and wanted to borrow my phone. When I saw that he was texting, I asked what he was doing? He showed me and to my surprise, he was updating his profile on eHarmony dating site. One of the requirements he asked for in a girl was that she be independent and career minded.

    There you go!!!

  • _Morpheus
    _Morpheus
    Well, as someone also not a woman, i can only offer my male perspective: you dated two guys, you didnt hit it off immediately (so it seems).... Thats life. Two guys out of thousands in your area. Its a small sample size. I would keep looking, maybe vary where you look and keep an open mind about who you are willing to give a shot too yourself. If your only looking at fairly well to do men in your age range , meaning stable with good jobs amd no wife, your going to keep getting the same result. Guys looking for a good time with minimal strings attached. Theres a reason they have gone this long not married or divorced themselves. They dont want marrige. Maybe you could look at guys who are not as well off, perhaps who have fallen on hard times etc etc, maybe a bit of shared circumstances would give a chance for more intimate understanding of one another... Just a thought....
  • FayeDunaway
    FayeDunaway
    John your stories are always worth reading!!
  • JWdaughter
    JWdaughter

    I think it isn't just about religion. It is a cultural shift. We are valued only by a list of stuff we have or accomplished. Marriage and relationships are not valued in the current generation, but if one is coming from the previous generation, the new generations expectations of job/financial success and accomplishment (particularly for women) are held up as expected, even though they were not held out as respectable measurements of womanhood in those earlier generations. So, people like my son have no respect for any woman who isn't ambitious and money oriented. Suddenly women in traditional roles are just money grubbers or layabouts, rather than displaced, unskilled homemakers or even (god forbid) women who really want to be homemakers and raise a family. That gets no respect. And if that was the path, thwarted, then they are screwed and trying to justify their existance on the planet.

    I'm not even a JW woman but some of them don't even have kids, just few marketable skills and a marginal, dismissive ex who justifies themselves with the woman's status as an apostate(ish) person.

    Don't look at men for anything other than what they are. They have been put into roles that they may not prefer, also. Just deal with the people you meet as people. No expectations. See what pans out. Find some nice women to hang around with.

    Having a relationship seems to be the goal. Some folks don't have relationship in 'em. Take them(or not!) for what they are and move on if they are uncompatible. Do things at night that interest you.Couch potatoes won't be there. They will be home watching tv

  • sowhatnow
    sowhatnow

    well to inform you on your curiosity, i have not looked to men based on income, that is not available info on the sites i have been on. i go by the profiles, its all i got. your right maybe it will take time. but i feel so cheap and sleazy being on those sites. i get like hundreds of views, and dozens of relies and its troubling to me. i don't like being looked at in that way.

    i am not super picky with appearances either, but i do have to at least find them marginally attractive knowing that those photos are not at all what people look like. from those two experience they post older pics when they were younger and thinner, lol but no so me.

    too many guys are overweight and have motorcycles smoke pot,have tatoos, and drink beer, i was never attracted to that. I have always been naturally attracted to nicely dressed conservative middle management business type men, maybe with normal short close shaved beards, not goatees neck hair, or those weird ones just around the mouth, ew.

    even if I never was a jw, lol. that's just me. it has nothing to do with income. accept oddly, that people who are blue collar, even after work, generally dress like they dont know how to buy clothes that fit, and look to me, sloppy. my husband rarely dressed nice, he was in over sized work jeans and a t shirt every day, and he was a sheet metal worker, he got dirty. the only time he got cleaned up was after dinner, and put on sloppy sweatpants, or for the meetings he rarely got cleaned up for me.

    lisarose,

    yea i was hoping to find some sort of club to join or classes to take, but where i live there are none. its all online classes. oh well. i have nothing special to offer, thats the point, what do men think a women has to offer?

    if not money then what?? i can do domestic things, its all i know how to do! cook clean, sew, garden, what else is there? what do i want from a man? he can provide for the family, and in return he gets a clean house well cared for offspring, and sex. lol. what else is there? what should i have to offer? i can work part time, thats not a problem, so what is it? ok guys, what do you want??

    I should have had the chance to go to college, but we were a poor family, and i did badly in school, i had no help or encouragement from my mom, since Armageddon was around the corner. lol.

    I have never led the men i dated to believe I was not confident in my job, i do ok, i work hard and get paid well. but im scraping by, and im ok with that, im not in need of anything. but at my age, why do i need to ruin my body , falling apart, by scrubbing shower stalls and floors, when a nice loving husband should have me in one piece, and able to help him? that was the arrangement when i was married, i did all the housework,errands, took care of the kids, got repair work done, ect ect, and he worked and then came home to a hot meal and did what i could not physically do like fix the car. it was 50 50. its the alcohol and regrets that ruined our marriage. it never was just the religion for us, it was the beer, he wasnt a jw when we got married. and he hasn't been in years. but beer, it ruined his body,and his mind, his mood, and his desire. and ended his marriage.

  • LisaRose
    LisaRose
    i have nothing special to offer, thats the point, what do men think a women has to offer?

    This is your problem, you obviously have very low self esteem. It's understandable after a divorce and leaving a cult, but you do have something to offer. I don't know you, but just based on your posts here I can see you as intelligent, can communicate well and are a nice person. You managed to break free of an abusive cult, that took courage and smarts. That's not nothing, and I am sure you have other things to offer as well. But until you believe you are worth something no one else will either. Stop looking at what you don't have and start thinking about yourself in a different way.

    If not money then what?? i can do domestic things, its all i know how to do! cook clean, sew, garden, what else is there? what do i want from a man? he can provide for the family, and in return he gets a clean house well cared for offspring, and sex. lol. what else is there?

    Don't knock cooking and cleaning, sewing and gardening, there are probably lots of men who would be happy with just that, lots of women can't do those things. And if you have love in your heart to give to the right guy, that could be life changing for that man, do you think that's nothing to offer? But you also want someone who loves you for being you, and the other stuff is just a bonus. It's hard, but not impossible, but you won't get it if you won't look for it and you won't get it if you think you don't deserve it.

    I get it, my first marriage was lousy too and I also have self esteem issues from being in a guilt inducing cult, but it's time to stop that thinking. Negative thoughts about yourself are like weeds in a garden, if you don't get rid of them they take over and crowd out the good thoughts. Nurture yourself like you nurture your plants. There is a saying that sometimes you have to fake it until you make it, so pretend you have confidence and eventually you will.

    What else is there? what should i have to offer? i can work part time, thats not a problem, so what is it? ok guys, what do you want??

    Other than sex, in my experience guys just want someone to listen to them. If you meet a nice man who interests you, make eye contact, smile and be interested in what they have to say. You would be surprised and how far those two simple things will get you.

    If you can't find a class you like have youthought about doing volunteer work? Great for the self esteem and you meet some interesting people.

  • JWdaughter
    JWdaughter
    Aw,dont' say that you have nothing to offer. That's not true and I say that knowing nothing about you other than what I have read over time. Stop selling yourself short. There are still folks out there that value what you are and what you have, but first of all, YOU need to. Otherwise you will just meet guys like your ex.
  • LisaRose
    LisaRose
    Have you read the book "simple abundance", by Sarah Ban Breathnatch? I recommend you get a copy if you have not. I see it at Thrift stores all the time.

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