Quite an interesting post. there are truths in it and in the post by A Guest. But when Christ said on the cross (stake or whatever) My God My God why have you forsaken me. He was actually quoting scripture from errr Psalms I think, Anyone have a referance bible handy?? I'm at work and don't have one here. But it is interesting to read the whole passage he was quoting and then see if he believed he was being forsaken.
Sean.
I'll check back in the morn and If noone has given the scripture I'll post it It's a great read.
The Key to Understanding Scripture
by Zechariah 28 Replies latest jw friends
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JG
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Introspection
Zechariah, you've repeatedly made the claim that those who are not willing to believe are pessimistic and are afraid of being disappointed, but do you realize that you need to have some kind of expectation so as to have even the possibility of a negative contrast? There can be no pessimism or fear of disappointment if someone has no expectation and no assumptions to start with. Your argument makes sense from the standpoint of someone who is "unbelieving" in the sense of being very incredulous, but that's just belief turned upside down. They simply believe that something is false rather than true, it's still a belief. Frankly it's just in the same category to me, two sides of the same coin. There is such a thing as non-belief, not having a position at all. That is truly the absence of belief, not just holding another position. It's also what we call being open minded. So I think in general, there can be truth to this idea that someone might choose to believe something is false or does not exist simply out of fear of being disappointed, but the real issue here is the need for a sense of security. Believing in something allows you that sense of security, but if you're honest in acknowledging the unknown then you're without that security. Is it better to fake certainty or to be honest with yourself about what you can reasonably accept as true?
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DJ
Hi JG,
I took your advice and read Psalm 22. Very Interesting. I can't believe I don't remember reading it before. Strange thing about the Bible....always something new, huh. Jesus did not believe that he was forsaken as I read it. Thanks, DJ
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JG
DJ
Thanks for looking that up. I'll re read it when I get home. I always had a problem with Jesus saying that god had forsaken him and then someone told me he was quoting scripture and I was so happy and I don't know why. renewed faith or something. anyway I'm happy to pass it on. Funny coming from a worldly guy hahaha.
Sean -
kelsey007
If the bible is the "word of god" and clearly, since it is a physical, material book, it was written for men- supposedly to help man understand god and his purpose why would a loving, thoughtful god have it written in such a way? Would you raise your child explaining fucntions of life and needed information for success in life in such a way?
Oh yes, God said, let us write a book for man, but write it so that not all can understand it and so that it can be used to create division and confusion. And though I, god, created man, the book will be full of spirit thought-
Sounds like god played russian roulette with truth....
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Realist
hello zech,
the problem is that there is no experiment that would show the existence of spirits. as it looks like everything can be explained without assuming their existence.
human conscience is not that unique. you have to look at the development of conscience during evolution. you have insects which are basically biorobots..you progress to higher animals like mammals ...and then to higher primates like chimps. these apes have selfawareness and display most of our abilities. so there is nothing unique about our 'spirit'.
brainfunctions are the result of chemical reactions...it doesn't look like as if there would be a higher power involved.
i am looking forward to read the scientific evidence for the existance of a higher being!
PS: most scientists don't deny the possibility that God exists. however, there are only a few that believe in a personal god. interestingly there are more atheist scientists in europe than in the US ...which reflects the fact that europeans are in general less religious than americans. (by the way...Einstein was a pantheist if anything).
Edited by - realist on 19 September 2002 6:59:12
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Zechariah
Kelsey007,
The very manner in which you perceive God, his purposes, etc. reveals your great hurt. You are like a abandoned child convinced that your parents abandonment was because of their lack of love for you. As a result you never want a relationship with him because you dont trust him anymore.
You refuse to be understanding because of your self centered opinion God's abandonment had to do with you personally. You as a result will never give God the chance to disappoint you again. He's nothing to you. Certainly not the God you desire or need a relationship with. Remember though that one cannot be forgiven who is unwilling to forgive.
The creator is the father that can do for us more than anyone ever could. Not only do we need his forgiveness but we need for our own benefit to forgive him for any perceived suffering he has allowed us to endure.
I like the Blues brothers am on a mission from God to attempt to reconcile people with the creator as was the mission of the biblical Zechariah. God commanded he tell his people to return to him and rebuild the temple (the home of God within man). This temple rebuilding represented our renewed faith and belief in him as we once had. This is so he can greatly bless us beyond our wildest imagination.
My current activities on the board is a major step on my personal mission.
Zechariah
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funkyderek
Zecharaiah, could you consider the possibility that maybe, just maybe, not all those who disagree with your belief system do so because they're sulking, but because they require evidence for their beliefs. That way, maybe you'll be able to have a rational discussion and people will be more inclined to listen to what you have to say. Who knows, you might even learn something.
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Zechariah
Funkerderek,
Lets be accurate. I never accused anybody of sulking. I correctly accused skeptics of having abandonment issues which include fear of further disappointment and mistrust and disrespect of God. It is because of these skeptics (unbelievers) are not willing to accept any evidence as credible that supports his existence.
The skeptic wants to believe himself to be totally objective and unbiased. Nothing cold be farther from the truth. Whether one chooses to believe or not is a willful choice. Only ones reason for his choice is in question.
The only way I can ever hope to recover those who have given up their belief in God is to force them to stop deluding themselves about why the disbelieve. It has nothing to do wth evidence. I as a believer am very willing to admit my opinions are facillitated by what I desire to believe. The thing is to recognize it is the same for everyone. Belief is a exercise of choice.
You should really try to accept that certain fact (IMO). I certainly am not going to change my opinion as I have weighed the pros and cons and found no benefit in unbelief.
I agree if you feel you have done the same and afterwards concluded unbelief is more beneficial I wish you well and hope you get the nothing you expect to. To have no expectations and no hope is the perfect defense for being disappointment.
I am not here to tickle anybodies ears. I just hope everyone can handle the truth.
Zechariah
Edited by - zechariah on 19 September 2002 22:39:15
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Farkel
Zechariah,
: Your need to be condescending, superior, and insulting ruins your credibility on anything else you say.
Spoken like a true condescending, needing to feel superior and "insulting" "true" believer. BTW, my credibility has transcended yours for years and years. You can pretend differently, but that is a fact. Oh, I forget. You hate facts.
Farkel
Edited by - Farkel on 19 September 2002 23:15:53