A question of race

by teejay 53 Replies latest jw friends

teejay

Since I was a believer from the earliest of my memories, I spent my formative academic years not thinking or caring much about my future. Although 1975 (Armageddon / The End of The World / Jehovah's Judgment) was still a year away, as a naive, dumbass teenager it was looming very large on my radar screen. Besides *that*, my best JW buddy got baptized in February of that year. No one said anything to me... not even my Mom. I figured all by myself that I better 'do something', and soon. The End was coming.
When I got baptized later the following month (March, 1974), I was quite confident that by the time I was 44 (my present age) I'd be living with a wife every bit as beautiful as Adam's Eve and eighteen kids, all of us happy as larks, on a spacious veranda somewhere in New Mexico (USA) or in S America with a crystal clear stream and a mountainscape within view of my large front room window. You know... in Paradise. The New Order. I figured that my future was securely in the hands of a loving, all-powerful god who loved me and had everything under control. Who knows? Maybe it is and maybe he does. (I'm not holding my breath.)
Point is... I didn't educate myself -- just another one of those believers that didn't plan for my future. So now, instead of a CAREER that will see me through to retirement, I have a JOB. I work as a contract courier for FedEx Ground, UPS' fiercest competitor.
Don't get me wrong. It's a good job and in many ways I know I'm lucky to have it...
I like being outside in the weather. Always have since I threw papers in third grade. I like meeting and being able to interact with many different people every day who work in a variety of jobs. Some of them have become friends... people I care about. I like the freedom to plan my day however I see fit. I like not ever having a supervisor looking over my shoulder all day long critiquing every single thing I do. For lunch, I like the choice of fast-food joints that are within a few feet of where I'm at. I also like the money I make. Because of this job, I've provided a standard of living for my family and me in ways that people with my poor level of education rarely achieve. That's a fact. There are a couple of downsides to the job, too, but I won't bore you.
One of the interesting things about my job as a courier and meeting different people is the reaction I get in places where I make deliveries. So: this post.
There are places where I never get treated with any level of civility or common decency, and I've been running basically the same route for 12 years... delivering to the same people. I wonder about the people in these places. They never have a cordial smile; a "hi, howya doin'?", "have a nice day!", or a "how was your weekend?"
They are surly and curt and mean and rude all the time... every.. single.. time I go in there. So, I'm thinking... since my job requires little else of me: Since my skin is the color it is, I wonder if *that* could be the reason for the treatment I get when I go into these one or two places.
I mean... I'm not there for any reason other than to deliver something THEY have ordered. Otherwise, I wouldn't be there. I have a reason--in their interests--to be in their place of business. I'm HELPING them. But still, I get shitty treatment.
NOW, HERE IS MY POINT:
This is something that others experience. Others of different races.
John P is White. He works where I do and we have worked for the company for about the same length of time. The other day (and not for the first time) he told me of a delivery he made the other day where he was treated like shit. I fully understood what he was saying--people can be rude / have bad days -- but I had the thought that HE never thought what *I* thought while he was having that experience.
What I thought, while he was relating what happened to him, was that
"hey, John... they didn't treat you that way because you were White. They were just having a bad day."
I'm CERTAIN that it never crossed John's mind that they were treating him the way they were because of the color of HIS skin. When people treat me shitty, I always... well... wonder. Why? Why are they reacting to me--a courier--this way? I'm only delivering something THEY ordered. True... in my case, they could be having a bad day. Could it be something else?
A simple question... true... but one White folks never have to ask. Either themselves...
... or others.
Dutchie

Hi Teejay,
Insecurities exist in all of us and while we may not all be conscious of our skin color, I sometimes wonder if people are reacting negatively toward me because this red outfit makes my butt look big, or if I have the wrong color lipstick on, or maybe they can smell the onion on my breath I had for lunch.
Maybe you blame negative reactions on your color because that is what you are most conscious of.
However, some people are just nasty no matter who you are or what you look like. Everyday for them is a bad day.
sableindian

Teejay,
You DID say these people were treating you this way EVERY SINGLE DAY and that John P had an experience one day. (and then you interject as if to have to help this along) that it has happened more than once. Well, did it happen EVERY DAY?
I know that there are elders in the Jehovah's Witness organization who are BLACK and talk about other Blacks like they are (s***). They use the N word and talk about their hair and other things that Whites would think twice to do.
You may be right. It may be a race issue. But do you think about race when a Black person treats you bad too? ...you should.
Shalom,
Happiness comes through doors you
didn't even know you left open
*:-.,_,.-:*'``'*:-.,_,.-:*'``'*:-.,_,.-:*'``'*:-.,_:-.,_,.-:**:-.,_,.
Qelilah Solomon
*:-.,_,.-:*'``'*:-.,_,.-:*'``'*:-.,_,.-:*'``'*:-.,_:-.,_,.-:**:-.,_,.
kelsey007

Though I am white I employ a majority of blacks and socialize with people of color. The treatment is different and the thoughts about the treatment are expressed as such (skin color does matter in our society). My project manager is a black man who is married to a white woman. As a vendor with the largest hospital in middle tennessee it became evident that once many of the powers at the hospital became aware of his mixed marriage our company was put under a whole new set of policies that our peer vendors were not subjected to. One of our competitors employees was actually caught red handed stealing some of our equipment on campus. Hospital administrators urged me not to have the man arrested. It ended up that the individual that was caught in the theft kept his job and his position. The treatment we received was much diferent. I was advised to fire an employee because he called a female staff member "sweetie"... RACE???? I am a WHITIE and I believe it to be so.
larc

Teejay,
Sometimes it is a matter of race. At other times it is a matter of socioeconomic differences. There are some nice rich people and there are some real asses.
Let me give you an example. I live in an average house. Up the hill and through much of my town are mansions. Yes, I live in a very rich community. Now, I have had several people to my house to do work. Once, we had our oak floors in a bed room sanded and refinished. After the job was done, the two white guys that did the work for us said that we were the nicest people in this rich community that they had worked for. So, in this case it was a status thing, not a race thing.
Teejay, on another subject, would you please e-mail me. I have some very interesting information for you.
On yet another subject, my wife really appreciated your call today.
teejay

You may be right. It may be a race issue. But do you think about race when a Black person treats you bad too? ...you should.

Sableindian,
You make my point. John P doesn't think of race when he's treated badly by people (normally those of his own race). Neither would I.
If I were regularly treated poorly by Blacks on my route (and me being a Black) I would simply conclude that they were low-class people. Racism would never enter my mind. Racism never enters John P's mind, regardless of how he's treated on the job. When *he's* mistreated, I doubt he thinks anything other than that 'those people are assholes' or 'they're having a bad day.' John P's skin color never enters his mind relative to how he's treated. It does mine. That's my point.
It's something that I think is burned into the psyche of Black Americans like me. I could be wrong, but I don't think so. For right or wrong, Blacks in America see themselves as being treated (differently) than others when they are really NOT being treated differently AT ALL.
We just think we are.
'Cause we're Black.
Look at it like this:
John P goes into a place to make a delivery. The folks in the place are White, like him. He's treated like shit.
I go into the same place to make a delivery. I'm treated like shit... just like him.
What's John likely to think about those people?
What am *I* likely to think?
Prisila

I once read something very interesting. If you ask a man, a white man, in front of a mirror: "What do you see." He will more than likey say, "a man." If you ask a black man in front of a mirror the same question: "What do you see." He will more than likey say, "a black man."
Why is that? I did the experiment, and it is true.
kelsey007

Prisila-could it be the same reason that an ex-jw looks in the mirror and sees an ex-jw?
finnrot

teejay,
I'm also 44 yeard old, and I went through the same experience in school. I couldn't care less about studying, I had forever and a day to learn everything I needed to know when Armageddon came in 1975. It sounds stupid now, but it made sense to me when I was watching T.V. instead of studying.
When it came to finding work, I paid dearly for my lack of education. I worked my ass off working construction for many years, until I landed a job as a meter reader for P.G.& E. I worked the same route for years and I can tell you there were nice people and there were some real asswipes out there. They were the same people every month. Race never entered the equation in my mind.
My ex-wife, who is black, always saw race in any situation that didn't go her way. Whites and blacks have a totally different worldwiew. If I'm in a department store and a salesperson comes up to me while I'm browsing, I think it's great that I got such good service, but my wife would come home and relate the same situation and complain bitterly that the salesperson thought she was giong to steal something so that's why she came over and asked her if she needed help. Same situation, different reaction.
Along those lines, I don't have any black friends that have broken any traffic laws, every time they've been pulled over by a cop, it's because of the color of their skin. Every time I've been pulled over, I know I'm guilty, and I've got nobody to blame but myself.
-fin
sableindian

Prisila (what a beautiful name...little woman)
Sometimes a Black man has to add that additional pride with his description. Our language is descriptive and colorful (no pun intended). It usually is not a color thing, but a cultural thing.
"She"is not just a woman, but she is a fine woman. His best friend is not just an idiot, he is a "pencil headed fool." Just a little language I've heard through out my years.
Just like the Shulamite. She had to mention she was Black. Not just comely. It's a cultural thing.
Happiness comes through doors you
didn't even know you left open
*:-.,_,.-:*'``'*:-.,_,.-:*'``'*:-.,_,.-:*'``'*:-.,_:-.,_,.-:**:-.,_,.
Qelilah Solomon
*:-.,_,.-:*'``'*:-.,_,.-:*'``'*:-.,_,.-:*'``'*:-.,_:-.,_,.-:**:-.,_,.

A question of race

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