A question of race

by teejay 53 Replies latest jw friends

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  target

  There are people with an Archie Bunker mentality who really do not realize they are racist. My mother was one. When I told her so, she said she was not, that she always felt sorry for the little black kids she saw because it was not their fault they were black. Her comments often left me speechless. She really did think like Archie Bunker. She said once that Jesus did not celebrate Christmas because he was a Jew and we know Jews do not celebrate Christmas. You can't reason with some one whose mind works that way.

  Target
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  sableindian

  Target, your mom was right about Jesus. Am I missing something. I grew up Jewish. I am an ethnic Jew and religious Jews did not celebrate Christmas. Today, though, I have to trip over trees and menorahs if I go to some synagogues! Oyeee.

  But, your mom was right about Jesus....I think (help me somebody. )
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  sableindian

  Thank you, teejay,

  I saw the poem. Also, the Lemba thread is just asking has the Jehovah's Witnesses written about that news about the DNA. Just doing research. I was interested in their take on it. Since they have written other articles about DNA. They seem to be silent on this one.

  But as far as your questions about being perplexed you will have to ask the scientists who say we all came from Africa. I think you may be confused because of how things are in modern times. Remember man has changed things quite a bit. If you go to a Pow Wow you will see Native Americans with blue eyes, blond hair, or with black skin and textured hair. And do we really think the original carib Indians looked like the residents of Puerto Rico today?

  Remember there WAS no Middle East until the late 19th century. And there WAS no Suez Canal to cut off parts of Africa. The Atlantic Ocean was not called the Atlantic Ocean, but the Ethiopic Ocean. And all that area was considered Africa. Israel on down. To the Romans, it was the Eastern provence. But Egypt, Ethiopia, Aswan, Cyrene, Israel were all lumped together for conquest. Carthage, Syria, Phoenicia...all that.

  Remember also, Judea was right next to Egypt. Very close. And they looked alike. Not like they do today as Muslims, but more like the Coptic. The Coptics did not mix with strangers as much as the Muslims. And because of that you can see the difference.

  But that is modern comparisons. The ancient drawings, carvings and artwork, speak for themselves. I believe you said that you are not a Jehovah's Witness but are married to one. So you should know there is a whole world out there that is not available to people who are compelled not to venture out and see for themselves.

  There is a wonderful place on the south side of Chicago in the University of Chicago called the Oriental Institute. Great place to visit and have your mind renewed.

  Really like your thread. G'night
• 

  teejay

  Also, the Lemba thread is just asking has the Jehovah's Witnesses written about that
  news about the DNA. Just doing research. I was interested in their take on it. Since they
  have written other articles about DNA. They seem to be silent on this one.

  Hi again, Q,

  I can see why the Watchtower wouldn't touch the topic of the Lemba. See, the gerontocracy in NY has always preferred its truth to have a European overtone. You feeling me? Highlighting the simple points you make would... uh... be a little more disruptive than the blood issue.

  I can see the Edith and Archie Bunker types reading the latest mag saying, "You mean to tell me that the Jews were Black?!!"

  Can you imagine the uproar? Jehovah's Chosen People? Black? Come on, Q! They can't do that!! People would leave IN DROVES!!

  Good research and information, Q.

  Btw, I was raised a witness and have been inactive for several years. Officially I'm still a member of Jehovah's People(tm).
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  sableindian

  Well, I must be naive, but I thought they promoted the truth and were not scared of contraversy. I wrote to them years ago about the scripture about 'the Cushite changing his skin' and brought out that since the scripture was written by Jeremiah, who was from a priestly class and who also would be adverse to markings on the skin and plus Jeremiah later MENTIONS point blank skin markings...that the said scripture was talking about the markings on the skin of a Cushite. Since they all basically had the same skin color, the differences here would not be a Caucasian Jeremiah looking at a "Negroid" Cushite.

  I thought it interesting that not long after that letter there was an Awake on the skin markings of Blacks, but no mention of the Jeremiah scripture.

  Oh, yes, I also mentioned that the leopard can change his spots in the poetic sense. (Which Jews, including Jesus, frequently spoke) A panther is nothing but a leopard whose spots are obscure because the spots and the leopard are black. But notice, it is talking about the 'markings' of the leopard, not his whole covering (fur over skins technically) Just the markings. As so why would Jeremiah all of a sudden go out of context and now start talking about skin color? Not all of us see like American White Males. But Some power ridden American White Males want us to think that way. How many people have even questioned that racist view?

  So, you may be right. There may be an underlying reason why they do not want the information promoted. Althought it is out there for all to view. Are all of the people in power of Jehovah's Witnesses White Males?

  Oh, and by the way, the majority running away in droves because of the expose I believe would be Black. I have never heard so many Blacks with pre 1960 mentality than in this organization. And I live in the south and it is pretty bad down here. LOL

  Have a blessed day. Is your Bio on here about your growing up as a Jehovah's Witnesses?
• 

  target

  Sableindian:

  <<Target, your mom was right about Jesus. Am I missing something. I grew up Jewish. I am an ethnic Jew and religious Jews did not celebrate Christmas>>

  Let me clarify for you.

  Why did Jews not celebrate Christmas? Because they did not accept Jesus as the Messiah. So if Jesus did not celebrate Christmas BECAUSE he was a Jew, then that meant he did not accept himself as the Messiah. So now do you see why my mother's reasoning made no sense? Of course, when Jesus was on earth no one was celebrating Christmas yet anyhow.

  Target

  Edited by - target on 24 September 2002 10:10:5
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  teejay

  Are all of the people in power of Jehovah's Witnesses White Males?

  Pretty much. A Black man was recently appointed to the governing body but for the first 120 years of JW history, all of the big dawgs were White. And, of course, male.

  Oh, and by the way, the majority running away in droves because of the expose I
  believe would be Black. I have never heard so many Blacks with pre 1960 mentality than
  in this organization. And I live in the south and it is pretty bad down here.

  That *is* remarkable once you look at it objectively. I'd go further back than "pre 1960", though. To... like... all the way back to slavery? I'm serious. Black JWs, whether we're talking about the biggies in Brooklyn or your regla ol' publisher in the local congregations, have a deferential feeling toward the (White) governing body that is absolutely palpable. I mean: "Don't question; don't buck The Man; you don't have the sense to figure stuff out by yourself so, sit down, shut up and do what you're told; etc." You'd think they'd be more interested in having mental freedom but not so. It's sickening, really.

  Is your Bio on here about your growing up as a Jehovah's Witnesses?

  Yep. Click on the profile icon just below my name. (
• 

  sableindian

  Target,

  ooooooo OOOOoooooooo, I get it now.

  (tip: try not to get to be 52)
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  outonalimb

  I don't know teejay, have you tried to be friendly to them? A hey, how ya doin'? You know an ice breaker. What kind of image do you project? Unfortunately prejudices are every where you look these days and it isn't just blacks. (Can you imagine what it would be like to be islamic in todays good ol' US of A?) Racism exists, it will always exist in one ugly form or another. It exists on this board. It doesn't mean we as a race have tolerate it. There are certainly many good things that can be done, and are being done to promote racial awareness. But lets be realistic, it is a slooooooooow process.

  My advice to you is treat others how you would like to be treated, if they don't respond to your gestures, f em' move on. By the way, i hope you don't talk to your clients the way you were talking trash on jwo, (mikes place?) to the ladies over there. One didn't have to know your color after reading those posts. I guess it does have a lot to do with the image you project.

  mark

  Edited by - outonalimb on 26 September 2002 1:8:53

  Edited by - outonalimb on 26 September 2002 1:10:56
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  teejay

  Hello, Mark. Long time..

  I don't know teejay, have you tried to be friendly to them? A hey, how ya doin'? You know an ice breaker. What kind of image do you project?

  At the very least, I'm neutral with everyone I meet, especially when I meet someone for the first time but usually I friendly with them (and they with me) since we already know each other professionally, having dealt with each other many times. I give EVERYBODY a greeting and a "have a nice day" when leaving. Treating others as I want to be treated is automatic in my business, at the very least. Normally I go a step or two beyond. It's really a small price to pay for the dividends I get in return.

  Once I went into this place to make a delivery. It was the first time I'd ever been in there. I had my delivery uniform on and my big delivery truck was parked right outside the front door. The first words out of the business owner's mouth were, "Get the fuck outta here."

  Another time, maybe a year ago, I was in a different place except *this* place I'd been to before MANY times. (It's a regular stop on my route.) I was having to deal with a secretary (not a usual occurence) and had been there much too long. I told her to accept my cell phone number and that I would return. She threw the paperwork I'd given her at me across her desk and it fell on the floor. Right then, her boss (who'd been out in the warehouse and had no way of knowing why I was in the office) came in and told me to "get the fuck out of his office" (really not *his* office). I tried to patiently explain my business for being there and he said, "didn't you hear what I just said?"

  [A few days later, I ran across one of the warehouse workers at a fast-food restaurant. He told me that *he* had filed a grievance against this same man for verbal abuse.]

  
  It's times like those that I wonder if the reaction I'm getting is partly due to my skin color. As you (and others) have suggested, I wipe the dust and keep on steppin'. I still wonder, though.

  By the way, i hope you don't talk to your clients the way you were talking trash on jwo, (mikes place?) to the ladies over there

  That's a totally different issue. I was only giving what I was getting in a discussion where most everyone "knew" each other and race was clearly not an issue. Besides, *I* apologized for *my* part in it. Maybe you saw?

  Peace.