Vicki Boer trial: Friday Sept 20 (page 2)

plmkrzy

It would be terrific if you could post the court transcript of the trial.

Yes. Dieter flatly denied knowing Mr. Toth. He said that he didn't work with him at all at Bethel (he thought that "Frank directed the traffic"). He also denied that Frank had an office next to him at Bethel.

Monday morning will be very interesting. Dieter gave me the impression of an out and out company man. He gave the impression on the stand as being cold and sneaky (Dieter, Little and Howe make a well-matched threesome imo, the triumvirate of nasty.) Of course, I'm hardly an unobjective observer, but I think this came across, particularly when his most frequent answers were "I don't recall that."

Expatbrit

Had Enough

Dr. Silver's testimony which took up most of the day, was specifically intended by the WTS to dismiss Dr. Awod's previous testimony of how, making Vicki re-tell the details of her abuse in front of her father, and to several different men, at several different occasions was damaging to her emotional and mental healing process.

I agree with Expat, that Mr. Mark's cross examination of this so-called doctor was quite successful in showing up his attempts to appear caring and concerned for Vicki for what they really were....cold and callous.

Dr. Silver tried to push the idea that:

her problems now, stemmed from early childhood "difficulities" such as feeling like an outsider from about Gr.3 on not participating in things like the anthem and from parties later on.
a stifling lifestyle being raised as a JW
then her disfunctional family-life, her father's drinking problem, contributed to it too
she acted out her conflicts by rebelling - asserting her freedom (by moving out)

One of the most damaging (to himself imho) parts of his testimony was his insistence that Vicki had "repetitive compulsion".

He explained "this is an unconscious process or way of resolving bad experiences, the opposite of one who supresses feelings". He said "Vicki compulsively 'needed' to repeat her story over and over again because for someone with this disorder, repetition takes away the severity of the abuse. Talking about it was helpful." He couldn't agree with Dr. Awod's evaluation that Vicki's re-telling of the details was a trauma equal to being re-abused.

This doctor claims to understand many different religious cultures like the JWs, Mormons, Jews and Catholics, but he obviously had no idea how devastating judicial committees can be especially for someone who has suffered child abuse. Dr. Silver's belief was that Vicki was strong-willed and rebellious referring to the time she called herself the "black sheep of the family", and that if she didn't want to participate in the elders' meetings, she wouldn't have attended. I wanted to scream out to him....She had no choice!! When you're raised to believe that elders are your spritual leaders directed by God, you do as you are told or you are disobeying God's directives. Mr. Mark very effectively made Dr. Silver agree that there is an "inequality of position between elder and victim, and just because she didn't refuse to meet doesn't mean she went willingly".

Silver admitted he had never asked Vicki how she felt about being made to meet with the elders.

But an important note is the contradictions in his statements about his evaluation that Vicki's re-telling of the abuse details, such as:

In one breath he said " he felt that the "repetition compulsion would cause her to go back to meetings with the elders and her parents to discuss the abuse, as a way of working through her feelings". Then later he admitted that "re-telling would be traumatic, similar to recalling the abuse from certain triggers such as hearing footsteps or heavy-breathing reminding her of her father's abuse" and when asked by Mr. Mark if not having to re-tell, over and over, the details of her abuse, would have helped in healing, Dr. Silver admitted that several re-tellings fanned the flames and added to the trauma".

So which is it...therapeutic or traumatic?

His constant references to her "compulsion" to talk about the details as though she enjoyed talking about it, visibly upset Vicki and reduced her to tears. So I ask: And this was the "strong-willed, rebellious woman who was asserting her freedom" that he described? I think it was all Scott could do to hold himself back from jumping up and throttling this man(?). One lady in the audience told me she had gone to him once for therapy and found him uncaring to the effects the WTS' treatment had on her.

Expat's description from memory of John Didur's testimony is very good. We both noticed his several references to the fact that he told the Shelburne elders to follow the July 88 BOE letter and report the abuse. Its so very interesting to hear all the conflicting testimonies about who said what to whom about whose responsibility it was. He sure tried to make it clear that he did his part...like the WTS trying to protect their collective butts. Even when asked by Mr. Mark, if he personally reported the abuse 'forthwith' when he first heard of it, Mr. Didur answered that he "told the Shelburne elder to refer to that BOE letter and report it".

Monday will finish up with the Defence witness, Mr. Burns and possibly Mr. Mark's rebuttal witness. Then the remainder of the day will be Mr. Mark's summary and Tuesday will be Defence's summary.

Had Enough

I was preparing my last post when Expat added his remarks about Didur's remarks about Frank Toth. He squirmed and said something like...Frank..uh Mr. Toth?..no I don't recall him...then later made the remark about the traffic dept.

But I wonder why the Defence Councel tried so hard to convince the judge that his testimony should not be allowed. Didur flatly denied ever talking to Frank or having anykind of exchange with him...so it will be interesting to see what Frank has to offer and what the WTS comes up with over the weekend.

Had Enough

ozziepost

This is a most informative thread. Thanks Had Enough for this latest report. We will be following this case downunder with much interest.

Cheers, Ozzie

expatbrit

Had Enough:

Is the correct spelling of Mr. Branch Committee Didur or Dieter? lol...I have real trouble with North American pronunciations of D's and T's!

Another amusing incident on Friday came to mind.

Mr Mark was cross-examining Dieter on what offences you can be disfellowshipped for. The subject of smoking came up, and Dieter admitted that, yes, you can be disfellowshipped for unrepentant smoking.

Mr Mark made the point that the Bible obviously doesn't say anything about smoking since Sir Walter Raleigh hadn't made the foul weed popular in the Western World (meaning Europe). He phrased it as a question to Dieter.

Mr Dieter replied along the lines of: "well I really couldn't say anything about Walter Raleigh and all that and when he did what he did."

Mr Mark replied that he could assure Mr. Dieter that tobacco wasn't introduced to the Western World until at least 1500 years after our Lord.

I pissed myself. Mr Dieter obviously hasn't been keeping up with his college level educational materials. And these guys think themselves quaified to provide counsel and leadership to millions of people!

Expatbrit

Lady Lee

man I'm beginning to wish I was an called as an expert witness on the effects of abuse. Some of these folks are missing the points

I think I woul dhave a very hard time sitting there being quiet

Had Enough

Hi Expat:

Yes...Didur is the correct spelling according to correspondence I've read from someone who knows him personally.

And yes, Expat had bladder problems yesterday LOL..in fact we all did...several times at the Columbo-type antics of Mr. Mark in getting a point across.

Had Enough

Lady Lee:

I'm beginning to wish I was an called as an expert witness on the effects of abuse. Some of these folks are missing the points

That's exactly what a couple of us remarked about after the trial yesterday. Vicki did well in explaining her feelings about the treatment due to WTS policy, but it sure could have used some backup and corroboration from others who have experienced the exact same re-abuse in a judicial committee.

These men making the rules seem to have no concept of the damage they have done. Especially when they try to back up their policies with opinions of a yokel like Dr. Silver who admitted that his "methods are different from most other doctors".

I must say though at one point he did say he agreed with Dr. Awod in that he "wouldn't have treated Vicki as the elders did".

Had Enough

Quotes

Expat said:

And Watchtower, you filthy lying scum, when he does I sincerely hope his evidence hangs your putrid, dishonest carcasses up to rot, together with the pus-filled organization you call the true religion.

I agree! As the Emperor in Star Wars said to the young Luke Skywalker: "Let the hate flow through you"

Damn, I'm sorry I had to miss this past week. I figure 85% chance of me being there on Monday, though. Hope to see some of you then, once again.

Mouthy, I'm sorry about your back, and am sending you and electronic (((((((HUG))))))) to feel better -- but not to squeeze so tight that it hurts your back any more than it already is

Vicki Boer trial: Friday Sept 20

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