theocratic warfare - info please

by A Paduan 13 Replies latest jw friends

  • A Paduan
    A Paduan

    In this section of the Sunday program transcript the fact that jws lie to the 'unworthy' is made clear. Additionally the notion of 'theocratic warfare' is officially denied by the wt society.

    Does anyone have a list of 'theocratic warfare' statements from the wt. I would like to mail them to the reporter and producers. I am quite sure that they would not appreciate having been lied to anymore than I do, and I think it appropriate to expose the heads of the 'church' to them as undoubtedly being the very liars that they already suspect.

    paduan

    ---------------------------------------------------------------

    "REPORTER: Officially, the church denies all knowledge of the concept of theocratic warfare"

    ----------------------------------------------------------------

    REPORTER: But the authorities and the courts need to be aware of something else, something far more sinister - the church's notion of the truth. In this book 'Insight on the Scriptures', it says here, doesn't it "Lying generally involves saying something false to a person who is entitled to know the truth".

    JIM DONALD: Yes.

    REPORTER: Would your average judge or magistrate be somebody who was entitled to know the truth?

    JIM DONALD: It would be very difficult for a person not to uphold what the society would want. They would back the society, and they would see that as backing Jehovah, in which case, these people, the court, is not entitled to know the truth.

    REPORTER: Is not?

    JIM DONALD: No. And in that case they would say that's not a lie.

    REPORTER: So it's quite possible, given this definition of lying, that a Jehovah's Witness could go before a civil court in this country and lie to their back teeth?

    JIM DONALD: Yes.

    REPORTER: And this from the man who was once the society's own lawyer.

    REV WARRYN STUCKEY: That has always been, as long as I remember, has been Watchtower doctrine, that only those who are entitled to know the truth deserve the truth.

    REPORTER: Right, but if they determined that a particular judge or a particular court is not entitled to know the truth, they won't tell the truth?

    REV WARRYN STUCKEY: Correct.

    REPORTER: Do you recall telling her that she shouldn't go to the police?

    MAURICE HADLEY: Not at all.

    REPORTER: She says you did?

    MAURICE HADLEY: Oh, well that's her word against mine, isn't it?

    REPORTER: So who is entitled to know the truth?

    MAURICE HADLEY: I mean, who do you think you are anyway? Since when have you become the bees knees on all of this?

    ----------------------------------------------------------------

    Edited by - a paduan on 22 September 2002 7:18:55

  • DannyBear
    DannyBear

    AP,

    Unfortunately the term "theocratic warfare" is one of those colloquialisms developed by the WTS ruling elite.

    Rutherford, probably the single most adversarial, 'fight em till hell freezes over', damn the consequences 'were right your wrong', (Ted Jarass fits pretty well here to) pretty much started this whole idea of godly deception.

    It is important to know that, when an elder is engaged in this strategy (speaking from personal experience) there is little if any distress or pang of conscience for doing so. A lie is no longer a lie, a half truth is being forthright. Whatever one says or does under that protective armor of 'theocratic manuevers' is warranted. In fact obligatory on the part of the faithful warrior.

    So its going to be very difficult if not impossible to find any written material regarding the subject. It is another one of those jw traditions, that go way back.....practiced to a fine art especially by wt defenders, but little of any paper trail.

    Danny

  • ballistic
    ballistic

    1989 Watchtower 1/1

    5

    Jonathan himself was also a fighter for righteousness. He had declared that "there is no hindrance to Jehovah to save by many or by few." Why? Because Jonathan recognized that there is always a need to seek divine guidance for victory in theocratic warfare. When Jonathan unwittingly committed an offense for which Saul sentenced him to death, he humbly accepted that judgment. Happily, the people redeemed him.1 Samuel 14:6, 9, 10, 24, 27, 43-45.

  • ballistic
    ballistic

    1986 Watchtower 9/1

    Jehovah had the land "vomit" those depraved humans out of their territory, using theocratic warfare to have it done. (Leviticus 18:1-30; Deuteronomy 7:1-6, 24) This justifies the spiritual warfare of the Christian today.2 Corinthians 10:3-5; Ephesians 6:11-18.

  • ballistic
    ballistic

    Watchtower 1984 1/1

    a milestone was reached with publication of The Watchtower of March 1, 1925. Its leading article, entitled "Birth of the Nation," made plain the prophecies showing that Gods promised Kingdom had been born in the heavens in 1914, that the Messianic King had hurled the Devil and his angels down to the earth, and that there must be war to a finish between Gods organization and Satans organization.Psalm 97:11; Revelation 12:1-12.

    13

    As this spiritual warfare advanced, those serving with Jehovahs organization were refreshed by continuing flashes of Bible understanding, and their numbers grew until, in 1938, as many as 50,769 reported Kingdom service during an international testimony period. The rapid growth called for better organization, and Jehovah provided that right on time! The two issues of The Watchtower for June 1 and 15, 1938, took as their study theme: "Organization." These were followed in July and August by a four-part series on "His War." A truly theocratic arrangement was brought in among Jehovahs Witnesses, and this strengthened them for intensified spiritual warfare. As Isaiahs prophecy, at Isa chapter 60 verses 17 and 22, had indicated, the improved condition among Gods people would stimulate a speeding up of Jehovahs Kingdom

  • Scully
    Scully

    http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.aspx?id=19283&site=3&page=4

    This thread was a "mock trial" entitled Do JWs Need Respect? and Theocratic War Strategy was discussed as one of the most damning behaviours:

    *** it-2 244-5 Lie *** LIE
    The opposite of truth. Lying generally involves saying something false to a person who is entitled to know the truth and doing so with the intent to deceive or to injure him or another person. A lie need not always be verbal. It can also be expressed in action, that is, a person may be living a lie... While malicious lying is definitely condemned in the Bible, this does not mean that a person is under obligation to divulge truthful information to people who are not entitled to it.

    *** w60 6/1 351 Questions from Readers *** From time to time letters are received asking whether a certain circumstance would justify making an exception to the Christian's obligation to tell the truth. In reply to these the following is given:

    God's Word commands: "Speak truth each of you with his neighbor." (Eph. 4:25) This command, however, does not mean that we should tell everyone who asks us all he wants to know. We must tell the truth to one who is entitled to know, but if one is not so entitled we may be evasive ... As a soldier of Christ he is in theocratic warfare and he must exercise added caution when dealing with God's foes. Thus the Scriptures show that for the purpose of protecting the interests of God's cause, it is proper to hide the truth from God's enemies.

    *** Watchtower 1957 May 1 p285, 286 Use Theocratic War Strategy ***

    A WITNESS of Jehovah was going from house to house in Eastern Germany when she met a violent opposer. Knowing at once what to expect she changed her red blouse for a green one in the very next hallway. No sooner had she appeared on the street than a Communist officer asked her if she had seen a woman with a red blouse. No, she replied, and went on her way. Did she tell a lie? No, she did not. . She was not a liar. Rather, she was using theocratic war strategy, hiding the truth by action and word for the sake of the ministry.

    In this she had good Scriptural precedent. Did not Rahab hide the Israelite spies by both action and word? Did not Abraham, Isaac, David and others likewise hide the truth at times when faced with a hostile enemy? They certainly did, and never do we read a word of censure for their doing so. Rather, we read of their being termed exemplary servants of Jehovah. Their actions were in line with Jesus' wise counsel: "Look! I am sending you forth as sheep amidst wolves; therefore prove yourselves cautious as serpents and yet innocent as doves."-Matt. 10:16, NW.

    Perhaps some will wonder as to where the line is to be drawn between use of theocratic war strategy in hiding the truth and the telling of lies. First of all, let it be noted that whenever one takes an oath to tell the truth he is obligated to do so. By dedicating himself to do God's will each Christian has taken a vow or made an oath to do God's will and to be faithful to him. To this oath he certainly must be true. Likewise, when a Christian is placed on a witness stand he is obligated to speak the truth if he speaks at all. At times he may prefer to refuse to speak and suffer the consequences rather than betray his brothers or the interests of God's work. And, of course, there is no occasion for use of war strategy when dealing with our Christian brothers. In dealing with them we tell the truth or tactfully remind them that what they seek to know does not concern them.

    Lies are untruths told for selfish reasons and which work injury to others. Satan told a lie to Eve that worked great harm to her and all the human race. Ananias and Sapphira told lies for selfish reasons. But hiding the truth, which he is not entitled to know, from an enemy does not harm him, especially when he would use such information to harm others who are innocent.

    A great work is being done by the witnesses even in lands where their activity is banned. The only way they can fulfill the command to preach the good news of God's kingdom is by use of theocratic war strategy. By underground methods the literature is brought into the country and distributed. Would it make sense to hide this literature by one's actions and then reveal its whereabouts by one's words when queried? Of course not! So in time of spiritual warfare it is proper to misdirect the enemy by hiding the truth. It is done unselfishly; it does not harm anyone; on the contrary, it does much good.

    Today God's servants are engaged in a warfare, a spiritual, theocratic warfare, a warfare ordered by God against wicked spirit forces and against false teachings. God's servants are sent forth as sheep among wolves and therefore need to exercise the extreme caution of serpents so as to protect properly the interests of God's kingdom committed to them. At all times they must be very careful not to divulge any information to the enemy that he could use to hamper the preaching work.

    Your Honour, it is the position of the Prosecution, based on these direct quotes, that the Defense may, at this very moment be engaged in "Theocratic War Strategy" in his attempts to persuade the court to decide in his favour. Indeed, Your Honour, the Defense may in fact consider this Court and You, Yourself, Your Honour, to 'not be entitled to the truth'.

    Yes, indeed, if the Defense is supporting the cause of the Watchtower Society, it would not only be profitable for him to engage in "Theocratic War Strategy", but the very cause itself would DEMAND his use of it.

    Your Honour, I hereby submit that in view of these findings, it is impossible to determine whether the Defense is in fact being honest and, indeed, RESPECTFUL with this Court.

    I further submit, these questions for the Court's indulgence:

    How much respect can one have for a religion that says that it is appropriate to lie for the furtherance of their cause?

    How much respect can one have for persons who willingly submit to, and when required, will lie for the organization they represent?

    My concluding remarks in this matter shall also consist of a direct quote from the Watchtower Society:

    *** ts (Is This Life All There Is? 1974) 46 What Is This Thing Called "Soul"? ***
    ...God, who is himself "the God of truth" and who hates lies, will not look with favor on persons who cling to organizations that teach[or promote!] falsehood. (Psalm 31:5; Proverbs 6:16-19; Revelation 21:8) And, really, would you want to be even associated with a religion that had not been honest with you?

    The facts speak for themselves, Your Honour. The very words of the Watchtower Society itself have condemned them. The willingness to lie for the furtherance of its goals on the part of both the leadership and the adherents proves beyond a reasonable doubt that the Watchtower Society has NO RESPECT for the social propriety of respect, and therefore, does not merit the respect of anyone.

    Love, Scully
  • patio34
    patio34

    Bravo Scully!

  • ballistic
    ballistic

    Watchtower 1969 5/1

    One faithful Christian of the present day who chose to be a soldier of Jesus Christ (2 Tim. 2:3, 4) instead of pursuing a military career and worldly materialistic interests was able to say joyfully after decades of loyal service in spiritual warfare: "I am happy that I could, at the age of seventy-one, attend the Watchtower Bible School of Gilead in Brooklyn in 1964 to receive advanced theocratic training. My prayer is that Jehovah, the God of armies, and his appointed Commander in Chief, Christ Jesus, may strengthen all their spiritual warriors to carry on faithfully until the final victory.Jer. 35:17.

    Do you need more references, I am quite happy to use the Watchtower library as a weapon. LOL.

  • ballistic
    ballistic

    here is the whole of that questions from readers Scully quoted from

    Questions

    from Readers

    From time to time letters are received asking whether a certain circumstance would justify making an exception to the Christian s obligation to tell the truth. In reply to these the following is given:

    Gods Word commands: "Speak truth each of you with his neighbor." (Eph. 4:25) This command, however, does not mean that we should tell everyone who asks us all he wants to know. We must tell the truth to one who is entitled to know, but if one is not so entitled we may be evasive. But we may not tell a falsehood.

    Thus a sister should tell the truth about her age for the purpose of having correct information on her publishers record card, as that comes under the purvue of right to know. Fear to do so is a sign of vanity and immaturity. Nor may this particular information be kept from a prospective mate if that one thinks it important enough to ask. Such a one would also have a right to know. So it would depend upon the circumstances whether one may be evasive about ones age or not.

    The same principle applies in the case of a patient suffering from some incurable disease. He has the right to know the verdict of a medical examination as to his life prospects. He may not be denied the knowledge that is so vital to himjust how precious his days are to him by reason of their being so few. It does not make for trust, understanding and love to deceive such a one, and the one practicing the deception will be continually plagued by a guilty conscience. If the patient is dedicated to Jehovah he certainly will appreciate that his times are in Gods hands and therefore will not have a morbid fear of dying but will strengthen himself in the resurrection hope. Some who withheld such information, intending kindness, afterward found that it had been a mistaken kindness.

    There is, of course, a right time and manner for divulging such information. The time should be opportune and the manner sympathetic yet not unduly sorrowful. It may not be amiss to observe that one may be hopeful about his condition in spite of such a prognosis, since medical knowledge is not infallible today. Love, wisdom and self-control will enable one to broach the subject properly and the result can be a far greater bond of affection than existed previously. At such a time the resurrection hope, the blessings already enjoyed as a member of the New World society as well as those that still lie ahead might also be mentioned.

    What about telling a prospective mate the unfavorable truth about ones past, such as before one became one of Jehovahs witnesses? If the subject comes up and one is asked, the rule would apply that the truth should be told as the other has a right to know. If one is not asked, then it would be up to ones discretion and conscience. However, if it appeared that the information was vital to the other, and the other did not ask simply because he did not think such a thing likely, then the information should be volunteered, trusting in love and understanding to cover over the matter. If there is to be any disillusionment, certainly it is far better that it take place before marriage than afterward. Here the well-known principle stated by Jesus would apply: "All things, therefore, that you want men to do to you, you also must likewise do to them; this, in fact, is what the Law and the Prophets mean."Matt. 7:12.

    There is one exception, however, that the Christian must ever bear in mind. As a soldier of Christ he is in theocratic warfare and he must exercise added caution when dealing with Gods foes. Thus the Scriptures show that for the purpose of protecting the interests of Gods cause, it is proper to hide the truth from Gods enemies. A Scriptural example of this is that of Rahab the harlot. She hid the Israelite spies because of her faith in their God Jehovah. This she did both by her actions and by her lips. That she had Jehovahs approval in doing so is seen from James commendation of her faith.Josh. 2:4, 5; Jas. 2:25.

    This would come under the term "war strategy," as explained in TheWatchtower, February 1, 1956, and is in keeping with Jesus counsel that when among wolves we must be as "cautious as serpents." Should circumstances require a Christian to take the witness stand and swear to tell the truth, then, if he speaks at all, he must utter the truth. When faced with the alternative of speaking and betraying his brothers or not speaking and being held in contempt of court, the mature Christian will put the welfare of his brothers ahead of his own, remembering Jesus words: "No one has greater love than this, that someone should surrender his [life] in behalf of his friends."Matt. 10:16; John 15:13.

    AtDaniel10:13Michaelisreferredtoas"oneofthechiefprinces."ArewetounderstandthatthereareotherchiefprincesinheavenbesidesMichael?M.P.,U.S.A.

    Yes, there is one other Chief Prince in heaven, Jehovah God himself. He is referred to as the "prince of princes" at Daniel 8:25, AS. See the book "YourWillBeDoneonEarth," pages 218, 219, 316.

    However, while Jehovah is the only other Chief Prince in heaven, Satan the Devil also has his chief princes, who today are in the vicinity of the earth, having been cast down with Satan at the conclusion of the war in heaven described in Revelation, chapter 12. See the book "NewHeavensandaNewEarth," page 29.

    Edited by - ballistic on 22 September 2002 9:54:44

  • DannyBear
    DannyBear

    AP,

    It appears that my response energized Ballistic and Scully to fire up their wt cd's. So even though I stand corrected, you got what you requested eh?

    Won't be the first time I was wrong, nor the last I guess.

    Danny

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