LYIN EYES......What do you expect from window washers, janitors, joe blows without any psychological degrees or credentials???? Is it any wonder why the cult's situation is so f'cked up??!! c'mon now!!!!!!! I'm truly surprised some poor soul driven to the edge hasn't barged into a KH with an AK-47 maching gun......God forbid, GB truly is pushing the envelope in these cases.....rocky220
WT6-15-02 ?from readers-funerals for suicides
by LyinEyes 28 Replies latest jw friends
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mouthy
I remember when a Brother in Montreal killed himself by putting a bullet in his mouth,He had worked with me at a wedding ( serving) a few days before- He was a bank manager.He had shared with me how dispondent he was with the Brothers & Sisters...He said they get into such vast debt- because they think they wont have to pay it back( this was before 1975)Then when the Credit Office gets after them- they come crying to me for a loan-I have to manipulate their forms so I can get it for them( He really wanted to help his brothers???& sisters???)
Well when he killed himself -the elders gave the funeral talk in a funeral parlour- But tried to make out it was the mafia that killed him!!!!!!! Just passed it around as a rumor----Well you all KNOW JWs DONT gossip((((WHAT??)Well it didnt take long for it to get all over Montreal. Persecution had started!!!!! I knew better- He has said--I cant take it much longer.....Wish I had said something to help.I didnt !!! Just "Well Armeggedons coming.....
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InquiryMan
I also remember reacting negatively when reading those words on suicide.
And my sympathy goes to those who were not supported in times of need.
Please do not bash all elders. Not all elders are the same. Many are decent
people (but being obliged to follow current guidelines of the WT).
It might be a struggle between human compassion and what might be
perceived as harshness. FYI, many elders, at least not in my art of the world,
are not window-cleaners, janitors (btw what is wrong performing those services,
is it not rather judgmental to look down on people performing less honorable
work, it does not necessarily imply bad intelligence). I do know quite a few
elders who are having white-collar work, even managers, doctors etc.
So please do not generalize too much.Edited by - InquiryMan on 24 September 2002 11:14:8
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Mulan
This seems to me, to be the logical next step for them. Because there seems to be so many suicides among them, they have to make the rule about attending or sponsoring a funeral or memorial for them.
If this wasn't a common occurrence, among the dubs, you can believe they wouldn't comment on attending a funeral for a suicide.
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LyinEyes
Amazing , I am glad your wife got out when she did too, being part of that cult is self destructive in more ways than can be stated.
Mulan, I didnt think about that, on why they had a question from readers , just a few months ago.
You are right , there seems to be a new epidemic of suicides and especially directly caused by disfellowshipping and the cold hearted shunning practice.
I guess we can see by this latest info in that mag, the JW's will continue to stand their cruel heartless ground and not even give a someone a decent farewell. And to think they claim so much love for the one that once was part of their "spiritual family".
I think many would go to these funerals if the elders, the GB would not dictate what they should do , and they can say , ask yourself these questions, it's your conscious. But we know they are playing word games, they let it be known what they really think , and that is that you should do.
I like the idea someone had to carry a sign at the Silentlambs march, for these other Silentlambs. I sure wish I could go, I am very proud to be in company with such good folks as all of you on this board. You people have hearts, and I can not see myself ever turning my back on any of you. I am sure that this message will get out into the open and the real people of the world , will see what a depraved cult JW's are for treating their "sheep" , the innocent , they way they do.
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Tinkerbell4125
After my father completed suicide, I didn't recieve any calls from the elders for encouragemnet for over 2 years, but then when I checked myself into rehab for almost drinking myself to death, they were all over me, couldn't stand it because I wouldn't meet with them. How could I go to the world for help and not them!!!! It was like they were on a witch hunt or something! CC and I were missing most of the meetings, after dad's suicide. Not one elder came to call on me, but let them hear that you are doing somehthing wrong in their eyes and they are on you like stink on shit.
I'm so pissed right now. All I have to say about that is......... paybacks are hell! All these stories of suicide really overwelm me. It's so sad. Unless you've ever had someone in your family complete suicide, you simple can't imagine the grief it causes. I wouldn't wish it upon your worst enemy.
Just a note I wanted to add. While in counceling, my councelor used the term *completed suicide* instead of *committed suicide* By useing the word committed, it has the connatation of a crime. A person can attempt suicide and if they succeed at it, then they completed it. To say commit is to imply a crime. What people need to realize is that suicide is caused by a desease called depression. Without treatment for this, it can kill you, and even with treatment, it still can kill you. When someone ask me what my father died from, I tell them depression.
Lyin Eyes, I'm sorry that you got upset over this. I can understandable understand. Suicide is a grief that you never get over, you simple learn to live with it. Hang in there sweetie.
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Mimilly
Dede - I completely understand hon. It's all bullshit. I remember when Starr, my best friend (and in troof) was struggling with depression, the elders disallowed worldly help and insisted more study, service, prayer was the only answer. After she completed suicide (thank you tinkerbell), there was quite the commotion about her funeral and should it be held at the hall. (I found out about all this afterwards)
At the time, the belief was held that people in the troof who 'committed' suicide had no hope of resurrection, therefor, no talk or funeral should be given on their behalf. There were so many people who rose up against the thought of Starr not being resurrected that they 'gave in' and held it at the hall.
I remember being truly pissed at their passing judgement on her like that. They were the reason she went over the edge - I mean gawd she tried so hard.
Mimilly
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jst_me
My ex was seeing a psycologist because all he ever talked about was killing himself. The brothers who were sheparding us (long story for another day) LAUGHED at him when he told them he was seeing someone, and he stopped going. They had just dx'd him as skitzo, and he stopped going.
Idiots. Blooguilty idiots.
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LyinEyes
That is very interesting Tinkerbell, on the "completed suicide",instead of committed suicide. The way you explained it does, make it sound like a crime, instead of the simple need of relief from extreame pain. In my mom's case she had overdoses on pills a couple of times, and I think these "attempts" , were what they called cries for help. She loved rehab... I am trying to have a little sense of humor when it comes to my mom, after all I get her morbid sense of humor. Back then, instead of needing to go rehab for a nervous breakdown, it was for a "rest". I have said many times that if my mom would have been raising my kids , she would call it what it really was, a place to run away and take a well deserved nap!!!!!!!! J/K
But , really I know why she wanted to go there, at least there, someone listened. That is the saddest part of my mom , that she was very lonely, even with people around her, usually an old sister in the congregation she hired to help iron clothes. I would come home and find her talking to the old sister, giving her clothes, just to have someone to talk to. I think Mama being an elders wife and having money, set her a little away from the crowd of gossips in our hall. She did have friends that called and visited , but it always seemed she held back and wanted to look like we had the perfect family. Very typical addiction/dyfunctional family, and being JW on top of that...... lethal...
I am so sorry about your dad, Tink, you are right , when you hear of things like this you get upset, but it is not just because you think of your loved one so much as you want it to stop.
You want the WT to stop their self righteous judgement, and you want to put your hands around their necks and squeeze, and squeeze,,,,,,,, oh sorry I was in deep visual there for a min!!LOL
I wish I could be at that march for Silentlambs so bad, I just cant turn lose because of the kids schooling . I hope to find a way and make the trip to the next one thou.
I also plan on visiting you and CC hopefully in the later fall............I hope we can get away.
How did the surgery go tink?
To everyone who replied to this thread about suicide being the other kind of Silentlambs, please tell those stories that you know about. They don't have to be of your family members, or even ones you knew well, but get the message out there, who knows who life you may can save. Tell everyone , about all the latest JW's scandal, for that is true. Even just mentioning how a cult like that destoyes families and lives...
The WT is doing their jobs at calling us all apostates, and seem to make their own definition of what that word really means, so I say fight fire with hotter fire. The real truth, will stand up and the world will see that exjw's are strong and growing , and are walking away not taking it anymore.
(((((((((((( hugs )))))))))))))))))))) Dede
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Tinkerbell4125
Dede, you better believe it, we're not taking it anymore!!!!!!!!! Bill Bowen made a very good point at our meet-up a few weeks ago. He said that he didn't care if anyone shunned him anymore, it was the other way around for him...he shunned them, he didn't like Jehovah's Witnesses!!!!! I use to care what my j.w. siblins thought about me, wanted to keep it quiet about my feelings towards the WTS. Didn't want to rock the boat. NO MORE! It's WRONG what they're doing and we all have to start speaking up against it! If my coming forth and speaking up will help one person, then it's worth it to me.
I'm having my surgury Thursday morning. I should be home by Friday, if all goes well. I'm dreading it, but ready to get it over with!
I sure hope that you and Wild Turkey will be able to come visit us this fall! It would be great to have you!!!!!!! CC and I would love it!!! We have plenty of room, so you guys can spend the night! I'm gonna add you to my email list also, that way when I send out certain emails, you can get them also.
Tink