I don't recall Pat saying the abuse was AT the K.Halls. Surely TJ was smart enough to conduct his hanky-panky OFF-site.
Please Be Careful About Accusations
by metatron 44 Replies latest jw friends
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DakotaRed
This is another reason I am calling on all to call for an investigation into all of this. No need to be at each others throats and accusing each other. The Watchtower loves seeing all this disunity and arguing.
Let's unite behind those that say it happened and call on the FBI to investigate it. Emails, phone calls, whatever. Let the evidence be found and any who knows of any, contact the FBI and tell them about it. There is always a trail of evidence left behind, not necessarily documents. This is not a local problem but apparently has crossed state lines, qualifying it as a federal matter.
One sign in New York isn't enough. Let's all call on the authorities to investigate and then let them do their jobs.
Lew W
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plmkrzy
BRING IT ON. Do they, uh, yahooooooo??
You have completely lost your marbles honey.
Talk about being guilty of reading things into what ever you want at will. You have done a marvelous job. Whose side are you on anyway?
I am an abuse survivor and my children are abuse survivors. I was repeatedly raped and beaten and almost burned to death in my home with my children while we slept for fear of it all coming out in the open. The same monster raped my children.
You have now managed to strike nerves in me and fire up my blood pressure to a level it has not been at foe many months.
You have misconstrued ALL of my comments and turned them in to something perverted to suit yourself and I want you to F88K off at this point.
If you have anything else to complain about or would like to attempt to abuse me further then I will by all means meet you anywhere anytime and you can try and do it to my face. Otherwise stick ass much up your sanctimonious ass as you can possibly fit.
It is amazing how ready you are to pounce on someone with an abusive attitude. But I sweetheart am a veteran of having survived incredible amounts of abuse that you can not match no matter how hard you may try to hurt me with you hollow words all you can do at best is raise my blood pressure a bit and bring back a few memories of being controlled by a monster.
No I'm not crazy sweetheart.
PlumCrazy is the nickname I decided to KEEP for myself after I had been dragged through miles of mud and bullshit when faced with having to prove everything in a court of law. To this day I am still in theropy. And I am sick and tired of making up excuses for why I am where I am in life and why I call myself crazy. Jump on the wagon asshole be my guest,
GROW UP or get educated
Get off of me.
Edited by - plmkrzy on 30 September 2002 6:49:10
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A Paduan
Well, most jws don't like the truth. They can't stand it, and plainly deny it to your face. They would rather pretend that they don't shun, that they aren't a religion, that there aren't paedophiles or assistants of such among them. It is the very example of satanic.
It's basically - they are of their father the devil, and their will is to kill those who refuse to support their untruth. He was a murderer from the beginning, and has nothing to do with the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks as he wants according to his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies. If you tell the truth, they do not believe you.
Edited by - a paduan on 30 September 2002 5:49:21
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outnfree
Hello, everyone.
This thread is so heart-breaking to read!
Firstly, I'd like to correct Plum, because Pat Garza never accused Ted Jaracz of murder. She DID say that there were threats of murder breathed against her brothers and her. She didn't specify by whom as far as I recall. AND, my recall agrees with GRITS' that Pat didn't state that the abuse had occured AT a Kingdom Hall. She did say that two other 'brothers' were present, which is why some may have assumed it was at a KH. I don't know if it was or not.
Secondly, Mimilly is SO right that this was something Pat needed to say OUT LOUD for her healing. I think everyone who witnessed her telling of her experience was very clear on that.
Thirdly, I hope Pat's witnesses DO come forward. I sat next to Pat at dinner and got a chance to speak with her and to review some of the Society's correspondence as well as her congregation elders' letter of "selective" support. It was all very cold -- something one wouldn't expect from the "loving, global, brotherhood", right? (Excuse me while I gag here.) Pat was VERY careful to correct anyone at the table who leapt(sp?) to an erroneous conclusion about the timeline of things or the actions of the people in her sad experience(s). She struck me as very resolute, even though visibly shaken by finally coming out in public.
Fourthly, in my various travels around JW discussion boards this is not the first accusation I have hear of either Satanic ritual abuse or of there being an established child pornography ring in the Organization. Granted, they have been hints, whispers, things only spoken aloud when those making the accusations feel comfortable enough with the listener to brave voicing them. So I do not dismiss the possibility that such evil exists SOME places in the organization.
Just because there are many here who do not even believe in Satan's existence does not mean that others do not only believe in it, but worship him. I am very ignorant of what sort of rituals are performed as part of Devil worship, but I do know that there is such a thing as Satan's Bible and that slaughtering black cats for use in certain ceremonies is supposed to occur. If there is ritual sex abuse, that would be in keeping with other ancient religions -- you know the ones with temple prostitutes or the ones who cut out hearts while the human sacrifices were still alive, or the ones who killed their babies to appease their God's wrath? As Satan has been "alive" at least in Scripture for thousands of years, there is no reason not to think a cult has grown up around him that would practice vile things.
Lastly, I should like to make a plea that we all take a step back and realize that this whole March has been a trigger for many of the victims/survivors of abuse who are reading and reliving what was done to them. We want to support one another so that all abuse victims are empowered enough to begin identifying themselves as survivors, don't we? For many, that means speaking out about their abuse over and over again, publicly and without fear, getting reassurance that it was not their fault and that their abusers were, indeed, criminally guilty. Can't we, who understand how the WT works, give them the opportunity to do so in a safe and loving atmosphere?
Thanks.
outnfree
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plmkrzy
I was accused of mocking and putting down someone who suffered abuse. Abuse of any kind is abuse.
I was accused of picking and choosing which forms of abuse should get recognition.
That is discussing and I did not deserve to be slapped in the face for doing absolutely nothing other then expressing concern based on experience. This is the same type of attacking I had to put up with in the judicial system that was suppose to be on my side. LOL. Talk about memory lane. This brings back many.
I did not attack anyone, and I would never mock someone for being abused. I have not been this insulted on this board this much since I first posted.
Its attacks like this that kept me from posting for almost a year and make me sorry I ever did.
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outnfree
Plum -
I did not mean my post as an attack on you. I'm sorry if you read it that way. I understood that you were offering cautionary advice based upon your own experience.
I DID hope my post would calm things down and not wound anyone further.
Sigh!
out
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hawkaw
Out,
I sent you an Email. Hope you got it.
hawk
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plmkrzy
((((((outnfree))))))Thankyou, and sorry for jumping to conclusions. Just a litttle bent still and winding down.
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Sentinel
Everything that has been posted on this thread has truth to it. We do have to be careful when we make an accusation against someone, no matter who it is. We can have our suspicions and our own opinions, but we need to know, that others on this forum may spread what we say, and things get mixed up along the way.
We know how difficult it is in a court of law, to get these types of cases on the docket. Most are dismissed prior to any hearings. But, if we slander someone, by engaging in malicious gossip and unvalidated accusations, and they can prove that their reputation was damaged, we could be sued. Then, instead of the public looking more favorably on our position, we would lose credability.
Some of us have this instinctive feeling about this "society", but we don't have the real proof to use against them in matters of the occult and the dark side. Perhaps instead of focasing on this arena right now, we should just take care of those coming out and those trying to adapt to life on the outside. Accurate information, where there is some documentation is fair game for coming to our own conclusions about the organization and discussing the people inside. But be careful about individual direct personal attacks on someone within the borg. If there is anything senister going on, it is with those few who control everything in the main headquarters.
Also, it would be a wise course for all of us to stay as close to "the light of good", and as far away from "the darkness of the bad". There are many possibilities for evil to hide under the cover of good. But, most of us are in no position to tackle such adversaries.
Even on this forum, when cases of abuse come to light, the individual should be directed to the proper agency for handling. We aren't equiped to do that within the forum. And, so much of this information is extremely personal. We would not wish to take personal and private information from someone else, and "do something with it". Rather, the injured party needs to go to the authorities and make their complaint.
Perhaps this is what the organization is hoping for, that someone on the outside will make an "attack" upon them which is not substantially validated. Then, that just makes them look more like the injured party, and none of us want that.
Sentinel