by gumby 64 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
Dave,
Jesus saves, not you (Moses, on the other hand, invests).
Just agree with me and you;ll be right (for a change) [HA!]
Gumby,
Yes, the bible does say "ALL HAVE SINNED" What it doesn't say is "ALL MUST SIN" With the exception of Original Sin (which involves not guilt but character defect) sin is a choice. Were it not then there would be no guilt associated with sin.
Yeru, Quote:
"Yes, the bible does say "ALL HAVE SINNED" What it doesn't say is "ALL MUST SIN" With the exception of Original Sin (which involves not guilt but character defect) sin is a choice. Were it not then there would be no guilt associated with sin".
Yeru, I was born a male...there is NOTHING I can do to change that.(sex change would'nt alter what I am)
What if I say....I am a male.....but I don't HAVE TO BE? Would that make sense?I was born male...no changing...no choice.
Your idea that man does not have to sin makes absolutely .....no sense. You make it sound as if....it can be done. 'All sin and fall short of the Glory of God'. That what is says....correct?
You are saying it IS possable to "pull it off" ....to not sin?
If you are not going to be honest and reasonable.....why talk anymore about this?
Edited by - Gumby on 7 October 2002 18:53:33
Yes, the bible does say "ALL HAVE SINNED" What it doesn't say is "ALL MUST SIN" With the exception of Original Sin (which involves not guilt but character defect) sin is a choice. Were it not then there would be no guilt associated with sin.
I don't know, I take the Genesis account to mean something a little different regarding "sin"
This is how I see it.
Adam and Eve were made to feel "ashamed of them selves. They probably still didn't grasp the idea of guilt and sin since they committed the first one. All they knew at that time was eat that and die They didnt know what sin was, or dishonesty. Adam didn't know what guilt was even after his shame because he tried to put all the blame on the damn woman that god gave him, it was "Their fault", God and that bad woman. According to his actions and behavior, Adam was the poor victim. and did not accept responsibility for his actions. So, he new nothing of guilt yet either. But he and his wife had almost 1,000 years to figure it out and give birth to a defected human race that would learn about it. That, we have no choice in the matter. Were all born tainted with Adam and Eves sin, and all have to grow our own conscience. Adam and Eve didnt apparently come equipped with a conscience. What would they have needed one for if they didnt know what sin and guilt was yet?
What I collect out of this whole sinning stuff and where guilt applies is only when your conscience comes into play because of something you went ahead and did regardless of knowing better and regardless of how your actions and or behavior may have hurt another/others.
We have a choice to use our conscience (for those of us who have one) when making decisions. When we ignore our conscience that is a deliberate sin. Thats what we are still accountable for. But the "sin" we are born into we are not obligated to answer for because Jesus bought that. That would include an abundance of ignorance. So he basically died for us to save us from our own stupidity. We still have to go through this life defected and stupid but Jesus sacrifice purchased us a second time around so that we can have the opportunity to make conscience decisions with out the burden of sin getting in our way. That would be the whole point of a resurrection.
We people have a habit of walking blindly into bad stuff and find ourselves getting caught up in things such as our way of life and or addictions before we know what hit us and sometimes it's to late for a lot of people to make things right even though they may want to in their hearts. Thats the type of sin we are bound to and we are not responsible for it. UNLESS, we are aware of it in advance and make a conscience decision to not care or give a shit. There are numerous scriptures that tell us it's whats in our heart that will make the difference.
IMO
Yeru,
I know this is hard for Christians to grasp, but I do not recognize the word "sin" nor do I recognize the book that tries to hold billions of people under it's grasp with the concept of "sin." The bible was written by men for the purpose of controlling other men. Sin, fear, guilt, grace, etc. etc. are words used to invoke control on others. I do not accept that control nor do I believe in the many mythical stories that try to explain our obligation to them. The many so called "golden rule" type comments are not unique to the bible and have been mistaken by many to be it's "saving grace." Those rules are basic guidelines of existence for humanity and are accepted outside of the bibles preaching by billions of people who are simply kind, thoughtful and caring humans.
Since I do not believe or follow anything the bible teaches in it's particular context I do not recognize any of its characters or stories. That includes the story of Jesus, Adam and Eve as well as the many other contrived myths.
Belive it or not, I can have this view and still be a good person and follow the rules of humanity. I don't need a book to tell me I am shit, so it can tell me I need the book to help me not be shit.
Take care,
Dave
Edited by - seven006 on 7 October 2002 23:31:29
Well shit ,shit and more shit ol Dave, Nice to hear your input....I agree we all know right from wrong.
Plum...you said, "When we ignore our conscience that is a deliberate sin. Thats why we are still accountable"
Give me a break! Before ANYONE does the nasty thing, takes something, lies, whatever......they know it is wrong BEFORE THEY DO IT. Yes?
They may have not thought about it enough.....but they were aware of it.Most every Sin is deliberate.You hit someone with your car....not delibetete. That was an accident.
Sin is Sin...according to the Bible. Deliberate sin dosen't add to your offence ( at least from what the bible says) True or not?
Isolating types of Sin, giving it various values, is getting right back to dubdom and religion agin. Shame on you girl!
